Secant

Snow. Fusion or fission?

Apples. Grapes or grapefruit?

Twilight Princess features a total of nine minigames, listed as: STAR Fruit Pop Flight-by-Fowl Yeti Sledding Iza's Rapid Ride Cat Hide 'n' Seek (in the hidden village after you have cleared the place of bokoblins) Ordon Sheep Herding Fishing Rollgoal (a hidden game also found in the fishing area). While Winder Waker boasts the following list: Mail Sorting Octorok Cannon Game Sliding Puzzle (in Private Oasis) Pig Hide 'n' Seek Auction Night Merman Target Practice Barrel Shooting Boating Course Bird-Man Contest Exactly the same for both games. In terms of collectables, Wind Waker probably does boast a few more categories, but really, that's getting so far into the knitty-gritty and subjective territory that it probably isn't worth mentioning. One other thing I might mention is that there is technically still something to do while traversing both the fields of Twilight Princess and the seas in Wind Waker, and that is encountering monster ambushes. However, in Twilight Princess they are a bit more frequent rather than completely random as they were in Wind Waker, though fortunately neither ubiquitous nor inescapable, so if you don't feel like dealing with enemies then you can always charge past them. That's fair then, I didn't really like them either and would have been surprised if they had grown on you much, though I will say it was fairly invigorating to chase down King Bulbin after he kidnapped Colin and whack him off his mount into a bottomless chasm off the bridge, and the rescue after was heartwarming. As for your latter point, that's fair; linear gameplay isn't for everyone. Here are some things we never saw before Twilight Princess: Double Clawshots Spinner Ball and Chain Bomb Arrows Water Bombs Hawkeye for precision aiming Fully controllable swimming A realistic 3D Zelda game on the GCN/Wii You can nitpick about the miniscule nature of these additions to the series all you like, but that doesn't change the fact that they exist and were new at the time of release. Twilight Princess borrowed heavily, but not exclusively. Not exactly a good mentality to undertake in a debate, but I'll trust that you'll keep any further impolite statements to yourself in the future.

A counterargument, then, is that you weren't playing Twilight Princess correctly, because you missed out on all the caverns and grottos scattered throughout the world, following the logic you present. What about the plethora of minigames included in the overworld, such as fishing, the fruit popping game, and canoeing down the river? Six and a half dozen. Take your pick--vast expanses of grass and hills, or vast expanses of ocean. Also, might I posit the beginning of the game in Wind Waker where you are forced to first visit Forsaken Fortress, then Windfall, then Dragon Roost Island before you're finally free to explore where you want to go? Actually, the King of Red Lions may even bar you from straying too far from your goal until after beating the Forbidden Woods, I'm not too sure. At least in Twilight Princess, you're free to completely explore an area once you've cleared it of Twilight. Just the same, there's a world beyond Ordon Village/Woods, and it's huge. I don't know about you, but when I finally made it to Hyrule Field and saw that cutscene showcasing just how vast the field was, my first thoughts were not at all related to how empty it might have been. Also, if you feel an inclination to rescue the Ordon children, that's indicative of successful character development and the player being attached to them as a result. Rarely does this happen in games, and when it does happen, it's a very good thing. In general, I just don't see where you're coming from. Wind Waker borrowed from quite a few Zelda games that came before its time as far as mechanics are concerned, and it borrowed from many of the same ones as Twilight Princess. I fail to see, then, how you can hold it in such high regard and condemn Twilight Princess. Also, to add to that, you might want to reread the last few paragraphs of my enormous post above yours, it addresses this as well. They borrowed from core mechanics that make a Zelda game--if you don't like those then it seems to me you probably wouldn't like any Zelda game, yet you do. Also, just for a reference, saying someone is playing the game wrong is a rather damning and impolite accusation, and I wouldn't really consider it something you should mention in a debate like this. Everyone plays the game in their own way and gets a different experience out of it; no one way is objectively superior to another.

Drunk. My avatar agrees. Sort of. White chocolate or dark chocolate?

(warning: extremely long post) @Jotokun Your post is brilliant and I love and agree with all of it, except with your comments regarding Twilight Princess. To address your points one by one: True, transformation was already included in Majora's Mask, but this was a different mechanic. Combat as a wolf relied predominantly on evasion, as you had few means of defense--personally, I found this to be a nice change. I'll hand you the Twilight Realm, but see below. Ganondorf was one aspect of the game that actually did leave me somewhat disappointed. I would have been very happy had Zant turned out to be the real final antagonist, but everything ended up coming together in such a typical manner. With that said, however, Zant as a villain was, in my opinion, executed very well; here we have a man stripped of his land and jealous of people who live in the world of light, and he wants revenge, so he usurps the throne of his people and bends them to his will, leading an army to corrupt the world of Hyrule and take it for his own. True, it's the same "take over the world" song and dance, but at least there's a justification behind it now. I'll hand you this one without the disclaimer; the group residing in Telma's bar never felt closer to me than acquaintances even with their somewhat heroic appearance near the end of the game where they blast an aeralfos out of the sky. Everyone else was, well, everyone else. To Nintendo's credit, though, most non-generic NPC's did at least have some degree of personality. However, I can't say I found anyone particularly annoying. I don't like fetch quests, either. In my not-so humble opinion, Twilight Princess is only a GameCube game. Why it was released on the Wii is beyond me; that version is a joke. True, few unique gameplay mechanics came into play here. However, some navigational abilities (such as full-3D swimming and underwater sword combat as well as the double clawshot mechanic) did crop up to make things more interesting, but for the most part they adhered to the core concepts. Again, see below. This is where I draw the line from mild disagreement to vehement opposition. As a musician, I would like to think I have a vague idea of what makes music good or bad, and I can honestly say Twilight Princess is one of my favorite soundtracks. An example: Consider the . The default version, yes, seems to be missing something. Why is this? Because when you obtain your horse and ride out into the fields, that is how the world should be seen, truly capturing the freedom conveyed by the vastness of the landscape. What then follows is a bursting orchestra trumpeting forth that feeling of vastness, and I can honestly say the first time I mounted Epona and started riding through Hyrule Field, that music sent shivers down my spine. This is only one example of Koji Kondo's masterful work; many of the Twilight-themed songs do so much to convey the alien nature of the race and the ambiance of the world. With that gushing aside though, yes, the world is huge, but it could have had more filling, so to speak. It's realistic, but that's not always what a video game should aim to be. Functional use of space is the norm, and anything different often doesn't look good. So, point conceded. Again, I'll oppose this point. Think about what the game exposes you to; while in Ocarina of Time there are vague implications that people are endangered by Ganondorf and his minions, it largely has to be inferred from the transition from the child world to the adult world, whereas in Twilight Princess you frequently see people immediately threatened. Remember in Kakariko Village when the bomb merchant (can't for the life of me remember his name) brings up the invasion of the Twili? There you see people directly threatened by some hideous beasts that came from nowhere and brought with them death to any who stood in their way, while the children huddle around the shaman cowering in terror. The game frequently shoves this directly in the player's face at nearly every opportunity; if this isn't dark to you, I shudder to think what your nightmares consist of. So with all of that out of the way, I personally enjoyed Twilight Princess immensely and herald it as one of the better games in the franchise (though Majora's Mask still easily takes the gold standard as you so aptly put it, sheerly from its atmosphere and brilliant gameplay mechanics, but that's another story). Why is this? Because, at its core, it's a Zelda game for the modern gamer. Some people missed out on Ocarina of Time when it was in its prime and N64 games were thought to have very good graphics for console games. Hopefully without opening that can of worms, I think we can agree most gamers prefer better graphics over less detailed visuals, at least in the case of 3D games. So that's exactly what Nintendo tried to do: They wanted to deliver a game that was your classical Zelda, no extra gimmicks, no strings attached, just updated for the modern gamer. That, in turn, would suggest that whether Twilight Princess is "good" or not is largely a matter preference. Whether you're a traditionalist like myself or someone who can't stand games that refuse to innovate, I'd imagine, should succinctly reflect how you feel about Twilight Princess. Still, I would like to think most of us can agree it wasn't a complete failure; the story, while somewhat worn, perhaps, wasn't badly executed. The combat was familiar with a few of the neat moves we got from Wind Waker integrated into the game in a more accessible manner (rather than dodge and counter moves they had actual button combinations for using them). The visuals were pretty decent all things considered, even if some parts of the overworld felt empty or desolate. These things are fairly objective, and I'd say considering what Twilight Princess has in that regard, that keeps it out of the "crap" category, and whether you classify this game as awesome or just meh is purely a matter of taste. That is, of course, just my take on it.

Exhibit A: An asshole

Besides the very valid points everyone's already brought up, you say that like criminals obey laws.

Then allow me to clarify, then, that that comment was intended as jest, and when speaking about the political shortcomings of the USA, I tend to adopt a decidedly sarcastic tone because I have become very jaded with how much regression this country has seen over the past several years. No, I do not honestly believe every citizen of the USA is a fat, lazy couch potato incapable of coherent thought; considering the fact that I have US citizenship and do not fit in this category, that would already destroy any credibility of my above statement. With that said, this sudden outcry against "violent video games," as it were, serves as a stark highlight to the grounds from which such generalizations form. As To Coool mentioned, video games have little to no influence in turning someone into a criminal; far more relevant are the person's mental health and upbringing (or lack thereof, as the case may be). What bothers me so much is how people immediately jump to conclusions to find a suitable scapegoat when it's something they barely even understand or have experience with. Perhaps even more troublesome is how many people hop on the band wagon and gladly trumpet their cries of protest to the heavens, decrying video games as the source of all evil. And even more troublesome is that this movement isn't simply laughed at and brushed aside; it gains momentum as an actual possible movement. My blame for that rests in people who have good intentions and understand what it takes to move the USA forward but don't care enough to expend the effort required to do so. For example, how many people are aware of Obama's reinstating of the NDAA? In fact, who even knows what the NDAA is? (If you can't answer either question, see here and here.) Given how much of a gross violation this policy is of people's basic rights--I should add, rights guaranteed by the Constitution of the USA--I fail to see how this was allowed to be passed and wasn't made out to be the egregious transgression that it is. Anyway, that rambling aside, my apologies if I offended anyone with that comment, it was not meant to be taken seriously. I just get very annoyed with stupid people, and I love being a cynical bastard every now and then.

The vice president is merely one head of a collective group of parents who are too stupid to realize that game companies put an 'M' rating on their games for a reason, yet we see 8-year-olds playing ridiculously violent games all the time. Instead of banning something outright (and thereby violating the first amendment to the US Constitution), maybe parents could, oh, I don't know, actually do their job and monitor what their kids are up to so they aren't being prematurely exposed to stuff like that?

Speaking of starters, when are we going to see a fighting/dark/psychic starter triangle? Or no triangle at all, just pick a nice Pokemon to start with, no strings attached? Oh right, that involves breaking 16 years of tradition. :I

That's essentially true of any standard handheld Pokemon game though, none of them have taken me more than two or three days to finish the main storyline and beat the Elite Four and whatever obligatory extra stuff there is to do (except SoulSilver, because beating Red demands excessive powerleveling without cheap tactics). The brunt of content in any of these games is the sidequest and/or competitive aspects of the game. Colosseum, on the other hand, took me several days to finish, and I might have just been playing slowly but it certainly felt like a longer game to me.

*cough* http://en.wikipedia....kémon_Colosseum Relevant to topic too, I want to see something more like Colosseum, that actually had a unique plot and main gameplay goal. Stealing Pokemon to purify their hearts and ultimately take down an evil corporation so hell-bent on making a profit that they're willing to brainwash innocent creatures into becoming murder machines to do it and there's only one gym? Yes PLEASE

Seeing as how there was a recent Steam sale with a preloaded debit gift card that I had conveniently covering the cost, I picked up Fable: The Lost Chapters and Fable III. Both are excellent games (barring the odd nearly or actually gamebreaking glitch, save often man), go buy them.

My current avatar is a depiction of Hannibal Lecter as portrayed by Gaspard Ulliel in the movie Hannibal Rising, my reasoning being that Hannibal is my favorite fictional serial killer. If you haven't watched the movies yet, go do it (unless you lack a strong stomach); they're fantastic.

lol'd

Yup, learned how to juggle the cascade as a final project for AP calculus, of all things.

Total damages include: Nuovo Morceau Subrosa by BT Blocking the Sky by Approaching Nirvana New Super Mario Bros. 2 Kingdom Hearts: Dream Drop Distance (which I already own and will be exchanging for Kid Icarus: Uprising, loloops) A fancy, mighty fine hat Laptop cooling pad Noise-canceling headphones Bluetooth wireless earbuds Juggling ball set Gray denim button-down shirt Light gray hoodie The Ultimate Bar Book Sweeney Todd behind the scenes book and $425

I can't tell if this is a threat or a compliment... =_= At any rate, welcome to the GCN Blaze, if you have any questions feel free to PM myself or any other of our staff members.

Sums it up pretty nicely for me.

Mesquite chicken soft tacos, made by my own hands (and by that I mean microwave :V), in tandem with triscuits and hummus. Man that was filling.

This is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, and is never something you should seriously consider. It just isn't worth it; life wouldn't have any comparatively good parts if you didn't have shitty ones to balance it out. Just pointing this out because I've seen too many people take their own lives, and it absolutely demolishes the people around you who love and care about you. Don't fucking do it, that's all there is to say. Best I can say is ask yourself if being disowned by them is something you really ought to care about. Do you really even want to be associated with this people, awful as they seem to be? I get that losing a side of your family sucks, but in a case like this, I can't really see a justifying reason for putting up with their crap, especially if people are physically abusive. Push comes to shove (perhaps more literally than might be preferable), you can always threaten to call the police and get the offenders arrested for domestic violence. A bit extreme but it'd certainly send a clear message to them that you're not going to put up with their crap, with the added bonus that you run no risk of getting in legal trouble by provoking or antagonizing them.

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED =_= 15 minutes later DAMN IT THAT BOSS IS HARD ;_;