Random thoughts on life...

[HellspawnOfHalo]

Has anyone noticed that for the past 100 years, just about every generation has been disappointed in the following generation for one reason or another? Whether it's the flappers of the 20's, the feminists of the 30's and after, civil rights activists ALL throughout history, the hippies of the 60's and afterward, and now, whom my friends and I refer to colloquially as "wiggers", aka, "white trash". Is society systematically degenerating? Is the concept of Mike Judge's "Idiocracy" plausible in the next few hundred years, if even THAT? What if we're all speaking a hybrid of gang-banger and redneck in 20 years? What if Fuddruckers turns into Butt Fuckers? What if a Starbucks changes from a delightful cup of coffee into a handjob?

 

Worse yet, as I'm sure you're all aware, our privacy has become increasingly insignificant in the eyes of the government and the corporations that REALLY run the show behind the curtain. Is George Orwell's "1984" going to become a reality? Has it already, and we're all too blind to see it? Has Big Brother loomed in over us, drawing the wool over our eyes to keep us from seeing our diminishing rights?

 

I'm gonna get off my soapbox before I turn into the crazy guy on the corner screaming the end is nigh, kthxbai...

 

**edit**

This isn't meant to alienate anyone, it's meant to express my feelings on the subject of cookie-cutter music that creates a mindless populous.

It's also meant to generate conversation.

[Conker]

If you think humanity will even ever come close to the characters of Idiocracy, you're incredibly wrong. It's not happening. Ever.

[HellspawnOfHalo]

My hope is that one day we as a species will leave anything pointless behind, namely shit like gangnam style, lady gaga, kesha, etc, and embrace a more intellectual phenomenons and people like Carl Sagan, Bill Nye, the writings of George Orwell, and MANY more intellectuals who actually want to further our species as a whole, not just live in the now and party.

 

If you think humanity will even ever come close to the characters of Idiocracy, you're incredibly wrong. It's not happening. Ever.

Some people are already there. Especially in the city I'm trapped in. In the words of the great Mufasa, "I'm surrounded by idiots..."

Not saying everyone in my city is completely moronic, I've found my share of relatively smart people who actually KNOW their head from their ass, but having a job in the service industry (movie theater)... it changes your perspective on people. They don't listen, they're selfish, and they don't respect anyone but themselves.

 

Maybe I'm just reading too much dark shit like Johnny the Homicidal Maniac and Fight Club, maybe I need to check my perspective, but I'm losing hope in humanity.

[zaneebaslave]

If you've ever worked in food business, you'll soon realize everyone is stupid. AND evil.

[Conker]

My hope is that one day we as a species will leave anything pointless behind, namely shit like gangnam style, lady gaga, kesha, etc, and embrace a more intellectual phenomenons and people like Carl Sagan, Bill Nye, the writings of George Orwell, and MANY more intellectuals who actually want to further our species as a whole, not just live in the now and party.

So people can't like certain things without being the cast of a Mike Judge film? I know a girl, she loves Lady Gaga, and she's also very smart.

If your hope is seriously that one day people will stop liking the things they do in order to like what you do(that second list of people), it isn't going to happen. And again, just because someone likes Gangnam Style, or Lady Gaga, it doesn't automatically make them an idiot.

 

Is it just people having a different taste in music than you that makes you think of them as idiots, or what is it?

(If your argument there had nothing to do with the whole "Idiocracy thing", please forgive me)

Some people are already there. Especially in the city I'm trapped in. In the words of the great Mufasa, "I'm surrounded by idiots..."

Not saying everyone in my city is completely moronic, I've found my share of relatively smart people who actually KNOW their head from their ass, but having a job in the service industry (movie theater)... it changes your perspective on people.

Some people? Sure. Will ALL of Humanity ever be there? No, and to think so is delusional.

They don't listen, they're selfish, and they don't respect anyone but themselves.

The fact you want people to stop loving Gangnam Style, Lady Gaga, Kesha, etc. and instead shift their interests to a group of intellectuals you love and think they should love is pretty selfish, if you ask me. I dunno, it just came off as such to me; not trying to be a dick about it.

Maybe I'm just reading too much dark shit like Johnny the Homicidal Maniac and Fight Club, maybe I need to check my perspective, but I'm losing hope in humanity.

No, you really need to check your perspective. It's not a maybe, it's a definite. And you have zero reason to lose hope in Humanity, as well.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Colonel Blinx
Toned down parts of it, as I looked like kind of an ass. It's not my intention at all to be one, so I thought it'd be for the better.

[Tell-Tale Heart]

My hope is that one day we as a species will leave anything pointless behind, namely shit like gangnam style, lady gaga, kesha, etc, and embrace a more intellectual phenomenons and people like Carl Sagan, Bill Nye, the writings of George Orwell, and MANY more intellectuals who actually want to further our species as a whole, not just live in the now and party.

 

Well, everyone enjoys different things. I see no reason why we should just become robots focusing on only intellectuals, nor should we only party.

We should have a balance of both, a time to work and think, and a time to let our hair down and play. I've worked all day long, especially today. All of today, I've worked on my art, I have done a bunch of schoolwork and written some scenes for a project's plot. I've been working and thinking almost constantly today, and I probably will for the next few days. But see, it's exhausting for anyone to work almost constantly, and it tends to wear on your emotional state. It's good to relax every now and then. That's what music and playing is for, to relax for a little bit so you can get back to work with more energy.

[Mellow]

George Orwell's 1984 is more plausible than Idiocracy, I have to say. And I will also agree that people should definitely take in more intellect. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that you were saying that more attentions could go to Carl Sagan than Nicki Minaj, or whatever, not at all that you can't listen to Nicki Minaj and also be an intellectual. Intelligence is definitely starting to suffer a downfall, with the sorts of people you mentioned. White trash, that sort of thing. Trust me, I was raised in the middle of Hicktown, North Carolina, I know exactly what you are speaking of, and I see exactly what you are saying. However, these people do not represent humanity as a whole. Humanity as a whole is still thriving, technology is advancing, medical research is advancing, just about everything is still advancing. You see, because these idiots spread out across the world have always been here. Always. That's just how a sentient race is bound to be. I have lost faith in humanity, for different reasons, but that does not mean you should have no hope. I highly doubt such a dystopia will be achieved as 1984 or Idiocracy, but it is plausible. But only plausible. It could happen, but it likely will not. And that is all I have to say.

[HellspawnOfHalo]

I'm not going to bother reading the rest of your comment, I'm just gonna say that I'm not saying everyone needs to conform to my taste, I'm just saying that that cookie cutter, mindless, soulless, and otherwise horrid excuse for music shouldn't be as popular as it is. Music used to be written by 1 person, maybe 2 or 3, and they used to be in the band, i.e. Bohemian Rhapsody by Queen. Now it takes 24 people to write Friday by Rebecca Black.

The degradation of what we as humanity considers music is becoming more and more shallow, less and less talented, and overall, just horrible.

I'm not saying EVERYONE who listens to these things I consider the bane of my existence to be morons, I'm mainly referring to teenyboppers who listen to it and see it as a good example to follow by, I'm referring to people who think Justin Beiber's god himself and proceed to cut their wrists because they think he's smoking pot, I'm referring to the drunk mothers who leave their kids at home to be babysat by Call of Duty while they're out dancing to Kesha. You know, the absolutely deplorable, selfish, sad excuses for human beings whom are currently a waste of space.

 

By the way Blinx, this is just my opinion. As outspoken and seemingly overzealous as I've been in the past, I stand by what I'm saying. FUCK STUPID PEOPLE.

[Conker]

You finally went into more depth with your argument! Isn't it fun to actually explain things in full detail!? Next time, do that first and foremost when making an argument. It would have made things much easier for me and others who've participated in this topic.

[Tell-Tale Heart]

Oh, so you're saying that degredation in music is a degredation in humanity?
Sure, music is a huge media and there's a lot of money put into it, but I don't think that it destroys society as a whole. As Nero said, technology and many other things are advancing, even if music taste is changing.

[Secant]

Shitty music tastes an idiot does not make. In other words, correlation does not imply causation.

 

I fully agree with you that people who cater to such "musicians," in an extremely loose usage of the word, tend to be very annoying as a general rule of thumb according to my experiences, but you also cross into the dangerous territory of generalizing people. That, to say the least, is not good, especially in as delicate an argument as this. It is impossible to ever expect humans to unanimously conform to specific intellectual standards; there will also be those who, be it through their own refusal to embrace intellectual development or for reasons beyond their control such as mental disabilities, will fall short of what we might call "average." That's the nature of the bell curve phenomenon, and try as you might, nothing anyone can do will ever eliminate it from being an accurate representation of humanity's intelligence across the whole population. However, what can be done is reducing the span of that curve--in other words, reducing just how much more or less intelligent a person one standard deviation from the mean is than that average person.

 

Also, it's worth noting that, on average, humans are becoming smarter, slowly but surely. Every day we learn a little more about the world around us, and every so often new textbooks come in to schools with that information, and even the most belligerent of students fail to learn absolutely nothing at all at some point in school. Compare ourselves as a whole to where we were just 50 years ago; at that time, only the most skilled and capable engineers were capable of operating the computers that happened to exist, whereas now we have computer that outclass those lumbering behemoths in magnitudes that fit in our pocket, and I'm fairly sure I'm not alone in believing a significant portion of people in the world are familiar with how to operate those computers we call smartphones.

 

Anyway, that rambling aside, I'm basically in agreement with Nero here. A disaster such as 1984 or Idiocracy is so monstrously unlikely that it's probably never going to happen, and humanity is still advancing regardless of how stupid a few members of the species can be.

[HellspawnOfHalo]

Oh, so you're saying that degredation in music is a degredation in humanity?Sure, music is a huge media and there's a lot of money put into it, but I don't think that it destroys society as a whole. As Nero said, technology and many other things are advancing, even if music taste is changing.

No, but generally the people that follow it are just sheep that follow the herd, ergo, mindless.

 

You finally went into more depth with your argument! Isn't it fun to actually explain things in full detail!? Next time, do that first and foremost when making an argument. It would have made things much easier for me and others who've participated in this topic.

I don't always think of the things people question me on until they question me on them.

 

Anyway, that rambling aside, I'm basically in agreement with Nero here. A disaster such as 1984 or Idiocracy is so monstrously unlikely that it's probably never going to happen, and humanity is still advancing regardless of how stupid a few members of the species can be.

Nero's right on the money.

[Tell-Tale Heart]

Shitty music tastes an idiot does not make. In other words, correlation does not imply causation.

 

I fully agree with you that people who cater to such "musicians," in an extremely loose usage of the word, tend to be very annoying as a general rule of thumb according to my experiences, but you also cross into the dangerous territory of generalizing people. That, to say the least, is not good, especially in as delicate an argument as this.

 

I can think of an exception, actually. My closes RL friend prefers the "musicians" that have been mentioned, and knows a lot of the media about them, but she is a genius of sorts. She is in upper-level classes and makes straight-A's in them without much studying, and she's very sympathetic and kind. She has stood up for people she doesn't even know against a larger group. Even though she has a, in my opinion, rather annoying taste in music and interest in the people who produce it, she's a really neat person.

[Secant]

Hence my assertion that generalizations in situations such as this are inappropriate, and the example you highlight above is exactly why, Tell-Tale.

[HellspawnOfHalo]

Hence my assertion that generalizations in situations such as this are inappropriate, and the example you highlight above is exactly why, Tell-Tale.

I wasn't implying that ALL people who listen to it are morons, just a large percentage. Nero was right on the money. Hell, I can give you an example of someone who isn't a complete buffoon who listens and enjoys that kind of music. My girlfriend. She's 19 years old, which is 11 months older than me, she works at a Micheal's art supplies store, and aspires to open an art gallery. She enjoys almost everything by Lady Gaga, she thinks Kanye West is the genius child he claims to be, and she's obsessed with the show Supernatural. While I can't talk crap about Supernatural (namely because I've never seen it), it's trending.

Now, while all of these things are true, she also doesn't just look at people at surface value, she doesn't like Lady Gaga just because she made songs about sex and drugs. She has her reasons for liking things like that, but she also sees that there's much more talented people that have lived, like Ludwig Van Beethoven,  Johann Sebastian Bach, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart. If you'd like more relative/recent examples, John Lenon of the Beatles, Freddy Mercury of Queen, Maynard James Keenan of Tool, A Perfect Circle, and Puscifier, Ronnie James Dio of Rainbow, Black Sabbath, Dio, Heaven and Hell, and COUNTLESS other projects he's done, and Steve Vai who's famous for even more work than Dio's done! While there's far more extremely talented people who became famous that I'm not listing, that's not due to disrespect, that's due to the fact that they happened not to be at the top of my head at the moment I thought of those people.

 

Anyhow, I digress, the one person I've truly felt a real connection with happens to enjoy these things, and I don't see her for anything less than the incredibly intelligent, witty, funny, kind-hearted, cut the bullshit woman that she is.

 

You may be asking, Hellspawn, what are you trying to say, what the hell's your point?

 

My point is, Not everyone who listens to trending music's a dolt, just a large majority of them are, especially people who listen to pretentious rap that talks about nothing but "I got this, I got that, chick on my balls, you smell what the rock's cookin?" kind of shit.

 

tl;dr

not everyone who listens to trendy music's retarded, just most of them.

[Strati]

I guess the core of problem here is whether people will listen to some music because "everyone else" is doing it or because they actually like it.

Take an hypotetical song that will be a pop hit in 8 from years from now. A lot of people wouldn't enjoy it if you presented it to them today,

but just wait those few years: a little buzz around it and they'll love it.

 

A great deal of people don't question what's being given to them and just go with the flow, so media overexposure will eventually make them like anything.

 

"So, this shouldn't be a big deal, it's just music taste after all."

 

Well, it is until it drifts from the realm of entertainment and escalates into ideology. So, yeah, you get a mass of people advocating for causes they didn't clearly think through.

[HellspawnOfHalo]

I guess the core of problem here is whether people will listen to some music because "everyone else" is doing it or because they actually like it.

Take an hypotetical song that will be a pop hit in 8 from years from now. A lot of people wouldn't enjoy it if you presented it to them today,

but just wait those few years: a little buzz around it and they'll love it.

 

A great deal of people don't question what's being given to them and just go with the flow, so media overexposure will eventually make them like anything.

 

"So, this shouldn't be a big deal, it's just music taste after all."

 

Well, it is until it drifts from the realm of entertainment and escalates into ideology. So, yeah, you get a mass of people advocating for causes they didn't clearly think through.

 

FINALLY!!!! SOMEONE WHO GETS EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN!!!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU'VE GIVEN ME A BRAINER FOR PROPERLY EXPRESSING HOW I'VE BEEN FEELING!!!!!!!!

[Conker]

You know what I think? I think you give way too much of a damn about what other people like.

[HellspawnOfHalo]

You know what I think? I think you give way too much of a damn about what other people like.

What gives you that impression? The fact that I gave my opinion on the downward spiral that is musical talent in today's age? I was more giving my opinion on shitty music than anything, but I also decided to throw in my opinion of the general population of people that like what I consider shitty music. Frankly, I give no fucks about what anyone else likes. If someone shows me something and I happen to appreciate it, cool, that's mainly how I discover new music. If someone shows me something and I dislike it but they appreciate it on a level I see as asinine, then I'll tell them to their face that what they're showing/playing for me sucks ass. I don't rely on others' opinions to form my own, otherwise what you said would be accurate.

[Guest sakura]

    First of all, just to get it out of the way I'll agree with you on the whole privacy issue. Technology advancing has made it substantially easier to monitor people, and that's being taken advantage of. I could talk about that more, but we seem to be on the same page.

That is the only part that I agree with.

 

Has anyone noticed that for the past 100 years, just about every generation has been disappointed in the following generation for one reason or another? Whether it's the flappers of the 20's, the feminists of the 30's and after, civil rights activists ALL throughout history, the hippies of the 60's and afterward, and now, whom my friends and I refer to colloquially as "wiggers", aka, "white trash".

    Are you honestly suggesting that civil rights activists are a bad thing, because they disappointed their previous generation? People who protested against civil rights ended up on the wrong side of history, and that's how it should be. Of course they're a disappointment to the previous generation. The previous generation wants them to hold the same ideals, and thank goodness they don't. It's because people disappointed the previous generation that we have sane laws today. Things are getting progressively better. It's only in the last seven years that Canada has legalized same sex marriage for example, and hopefully one day it will be a non-issue just like interracial marriage is now.
 

My hope is that one day we as a species will leave anything pointless behind, namely shit like gangnam style, lady gaga, kesha, etc, and embrace a more intellectual phenomenons and people like Carl Sagan, Bill Nye, the writings of George Orwell, and MANY more intellectuals who actually want to further our species as a whole, not just live in the now and party.

Some people are already there. Especially in the city I'm trapped in. In the words of the great Mufasa, "I'm surrounded by idiots..."
Not saying everyone in my city is completely moronic, I've found my share of relatively smart people who actually KNOW their head from their ass, but having a job in the service industry (movie theater)... it changes your perspective on people. They don't listen, they're selfish, and they don't respect anyone but themselves.

Maybe I'm just reading too much dark shit like Johnny the Homicidal Maniac and Fight Club, maybe I need to check my perspective, but I'm losing hope in humanity.

I wasn't implying that ALL people who listen to it are morons, just a large percentage. Nero was right on the money. Hell, I can give you an example of someone who isn't a complete buffoon who listens and enjoys that kind of music. My girlfriend.

    Here's where I actually took such a huge issue with what you were saying, that I felt compelled to post. You're taking your annoyance with human nature and certain types of music, and trying to present it as some kind of statement on the degradation of society. That's quite honestly a joke.

    The reality is, the most progress will be made by individuals that are passionate about the field they're contributing to. You even mention some of them, these are the intellectuals who end up expanding our collective knowledge. Does that need to be every single person though? Absolutely not, life is entirely too short to force people into things that they don't enjoy. If someone wants to spend their life running a café because they love to chat with customers, why look down on them? It's great to respect the people who do make massive contributions, but disrespecting the people who don't is flat out wrong. Progress will continue to be made, and by the right people for the job.

    Just take a look at the massive change in technology over the last 20 years. The more progress that gets made, the easier it is to make future progress. Or go back even further and look at how things have changed over the last few hundred years. Only three hundred years ago, the average person couldn't even read. Just let that soak in, something as basic as reading was beyond the average person's grasp, and you're going to say that we're less intellectual as a whole now, or that things are getting worse? It was just recently that the internet became wide spread, now the average person has access to more information than they could ever consume during a life time. Even something we take for granted today like negative numbers, wasn't truly sorted out until the 18th century. Now we expect any student to understand them intuitively, and we have a base of education that every person is required to go through. Our standards are getting much higher over time, not lower.

   On top of all that, lets take a look at how laws have changed over time. I mentioned that Canada legalized same-sex marriage about seven years ago now, there's a trend of society becoming more accepting of people. Loving v. Virginia, 388 U.S. 1 (1967) banned any laws prohibiting interracial marriage in the United States. That was only forty years ago! Before forty years ago, you couldn't marry someone with a different ethnicity. Again, things getting better rather than getting worse. I could provide so many examples of laws becoming more sane, we're moving in a positive direction and only more rapidly as time goes on. Society is becoming more accepting, not less.

    Now the biggest issue I have with what you're saying, is about music.

 

I'm not going to bother reading the rest of your comment, I'm just gonna say that I'm not saying everyone needs to conform to my taste, I'm just saying that that cookie cutter, mindless, soulless, and otherwise horrid excuse for music shouldn't be as popular as it is. Music used to be written by 1 person, maybe 2 or 3, and they used to be in the band, i.e. Bohemian Rhapsody by Queen. Now it takes 24 people to write Friday by Rebecca Black.
The degradation of what we as humanity considers music is becoming more and more shallow, less and less talented, and overall, just horrible.
I'm not saying EVERYONE who listens to these things I consider the bane of my existence to be morons, I'm mainly referring to teenyboppers who listen to it and see it as a good example to follow by, I'm referring to people who think Justin Beiber's god himself and proceed to cut their wrists because they think he's smoking pot, I'm referring to the drunk mothers who leave their kids at home to be babysat by Call of Duty while they're out dancing to Kesha. You know, the absolutely deplorable, selfish, sad excuses for human beings whom are currently a waste of space.

By the way Blinx, this is just my opinion. As outspoken and seemingly overzealous as I've been in the past, I stand by what I'm saying. FUCK STUPID PEOPLE.

    Saying this is "just your opinion" is a cop-out. You are making an assertion, it's either true or it's not; you should be able to back it up. "I don't like <type of music>" is an opinion. Instead, you're trying to present a weak argument based on things that have no correlation about the degredation of humanity. Why is a song that one or two people worked on, inherently better than a song that many people worked on? That's not even accurate anyways, "Friday" was "written and produced by Los Angeles record producers Clarence Jey and Patrice Wilson". That's two people, you made no point there. I could do some more digging, I also remember reading that a lot of the big pop hits were written by a single person. That's how I feel about the whole issue. Can you give even a shred of evidence that Gangnam Style and Ke$ha are bad things, beyond that you don't like them? If not, maybe you need to admit that you're falling victim to human nature yourself, with this whole elitist rant as a way for you to feel superior to other people based on an arbitrary preference.

    Society is progressing remarkably, despite something so horrendous as people enjoying catchy music.

[Arceny]

I kinda get what you mean: yeah, a lot of folks are quick to follow, easy to be fooled, so naive.

 

And a lot of people like the new stuff, and hate on the "intellectuals".

 

But that's just people's "opinion". It's what makes humanity so great. It's free, and its yours.

 

You can't force someone to like certain things; that's just how people are.

 

 

But I get what you're getting at, HellSpawn.

 

Peace.

[Strati]

FINALLY!!!! SOMEONE WHO GETS EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN!!!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU'VE GIVEN ME A BRAINER FOR PROPERLY EXPRESSING HOW I'VE BEEN FEELING!!!!!!!!

 

Apparently you've been discussing another things. My point was rather how some people accept things so easily and that sort of sabotages the democracy system.

Not only in my country, there were many times when the media influence helped, actively or passively, to elect some messed up politicians, despite their corrupt past.

 

Back on topic, I could still argue some music will help steer people towards consumism and "life is short" and how these people would affect the world around me but, seriously, it won't change fuck, so I'll do the usual: deal with it.

[Secant]

deal with it

 

is pretty much definitively where this discussion should end up. Juxtaposed with every point Sakura made, it seems pointless to me to complain about something that's largely impossible to change. If you want to make a difference in this, become a teacher; it certainly sounds like you have adequate motivation to do so.

[Gump]

 

If you'd like more relative/recent examples, John Lenon of the Beatles, Freddy Mercury of Queen, Maynard James Keenan of Tool, A Perfect Circle, and Puscifier, Ronnie James Dio of Rainbow, Black Sabbath, Dio, Heaven and Hell, and COUNTLESS other projects he's done, and Steve Vai who's famous for even more work than Dio's done!

 

Look, I'm as big of a Freddy Mercury fan as anyone, but you do realize that is a completely inaccurate statement by stating those people, right? Because you know, they were fads once too? They were called the Devil's music back when these people were in business. People thought it was mindless and a horrible excuse for music. So basically, people felt the same as you, and look where that got them? Right here. You, by your logic, are not part of the solution. You're part of the problem. Of course, there isn't a problem unless someone makes one.

 

Just some food for thought.

[Mellow]