Fall of Antiqua

[Conker]

I never got pissed at anything you said in the team chat. >.>

 

 

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Sent from my iPhone, because Siri has my manhood in her purse... or something.

[SoulofDeity]

I never got pissed at anything you said in the team chat. >.>

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Sent from my iPhone, because Siri has my manhood in her purse... or something.

 

I think this was before you joined the team. I left shortly after bobbo joined.

[Omnai Blackwind]

A lot of the progress has been slow because people are starting school, college, and have egregious home lives that won't let them on for long. It might take a while, but shit will get done. Just because a project isn't OPENLY active doesn't mean it's dying. 

[SoulofDeity]

A lot of the progress has been slow because people are starting school, college, and have egregious home lives that won't let them on for long. It might take a while, but shit will get done. Just because a project isn't OPENLY active doesn't mean it's dying. 

 

this project has been ongoing for like 2 years. those are not valid excuses for why nothing is in game yet.

 

EDIT:

correction:  nothing ~shown~ in game yet. I'm not on the team anymore, so I have no idea what actually is or isn't in game at the moment.

[DeathBasket]

After over a decade of modding OoT, assembly modding has never matured enough to do too much with. There have been no custom enemies, no custom weapons (just altered display lists and actor spawns), and there have been only 3 or 4 custom actors created, all of which did nothing but stand there.

 Not true. Also, assembly hacking is pretty simple. CloudMax has been around hardly any time at all and has already done a load of cool stuff with assembly hacks. The problem is that people here who can program usually seem intimidated by low level programming and don't want to get into it for whatever reason. 

Especially on MM where there is literally no assembly documentation at all, and would require possibly several weeks of tedious hair yanking to get half the knowledge of that is known about the debug rom.

It really doesn't take long to document all the stuff in MM that's similar to OoT since it usually works the same way. The main problem with using MM as a base for a full blown hack is just that you need to do a ton of work to remove the time limit and everything related to it to make the game function anything like OoT. There's really little benefit in using MM over OoT imo, especially if you're planning on using the OoT debug ROM.

this project has been ongoing for like 2 years. those are not valid excuses for why nothing is in game yet.

You can't be serious...

[SoulofDeity]

Not true. Also, assembly hacking is pretty simple. CloudMax has been around hardly any time at all and has already done a load of cool stuff with assembly hacks. The problem is that people here who can program usually seem intimidated by low level programming and don't want to get into it for whatever reason.

 

It really doesn't take long to document all the stuff in MM that's similar to OoT since it usually works the same way. The main problem with using MM as a base for a full blown hack is just that you need to do a ton of work to remove the time limit and everything related to it to make the game function anything like OoT. There's really little benefit in using MM over OoT imo, especially if you're planning on using the OoT debug ROM.

 

You can't be serious...

 

 

-  Then name this cool stuff. I want to see where the things I've mentioned have been done. Yes, assembly modding is easy with practice, but possible != reasonable

 

-  It does depending on what you're searching for. stuff like actor spawning, dma'ing, file loading, and audio playing functions being some of your basic stuff (which you'll also have to figure out the fields for). you'll also want ram maps for things like player savedata and states which much of which can admittedly be reverse engineered from gs codes, and you'll possible want to find to good places to install hooks to get your code patched to the rom so the people don't have to enable 3000 lines of gs codes.

 

- I am serious. When I first joined the team, I asked how long the project had been going before I joined and Mellow had stated around 6-9 months; that they just hadn't announced publicly yet. ~and I quit almost a year ago, I believe some time around early october last year

 

 

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EDIT:

I know this is coming off like I'm bashing this project, and I'm honestly not trying to. I'm just agreeing with something someone pointed out a few posts ago that if anything is in game at all, no matter how miniscule, show something. Let the people see that progress is being made, don't drag them to the top of the stair well by the nose with false promises and push them down say "we lied" or just blatantly disappearing / faking your deaths.

[Spire]

I can confirm that Mellow said the project had existed for a long time, and it was only with Ura's demise that it was publicly greenlit. When I joined, work was beginning for the first time. Before that, it was just ether.

[DeathBasket]

-  Then name this cool stuff. I want to see where the things I've mentioned have been done. Yes, assembly modding is easy with practice, but possible != reasonable

 

The only reason things don't seem reasonable is, as I said, most people have an irrational fear of low level programming. If more people actually researched into the more complicated areas of actors then programming new ones wouldn't seem like such a huge task. All it requires is an understanding of assembly code and how to use a debugger (and interest, of course). There is enough information out there already to make programming completely new NPCs possible, as I've shown. The fact that only a small minority of people ever tried programming actors at all does not mean nobody can do it, it just means nobody really tried. 

-  It does depending on what you're searching for. stuff like actor spawning, dma'ing, file loading, and audio playing functions being some of your basic stuff (which you'll also have to figure out the fields for). you'll also want ram maps for things like player savedata and states which much of which can admittedly be reverse engineered from gs codes, and you'll possible want to find to good places to install hooks to get your code patched to the rom so the people don't have to enable 3000 lines of gs codes.

 

We have all of those now. There just aren't many tools made specifically for MM so I guess that's why most people avoid it. Most people still interested in the games are taking on their own projects too, which makes OoT more useful to them. If anybody seriously wanted to start hacking MM then the lack of information on it shouldn't be an issue anyway. 

- I am serious. When I first joined the team, I asked how long the project had been going before I joined and Mellow had stated around 6-9 months; that they just hadn't announced publicly yet. ~and I quit almost a year ago, I believe some time around early october last year

 

Sorry, I'm bad. I thought this project had only started not long before I joined it, no idea it'd been around any longer than that based on what had been thought up at the time I joined.

 

Anyway, back on topic, I know stuff is still being developed for this project but I'm not going to pretend there's a significant amount of work being done right now. I'm not saying it won't pick up again soon, it just feels like we need to get everyone back together at some point (I mean everyone, not two or three people) to focus on it a little more if possible.

[Omnai Blackwind]

The project was just an Idea and Ashe was gathering people to work on it when I joined, about a year ago. A little under a year ago, Ashe completely revamped the story, the title, basically everything so it was like new. And even then, he's still working out kinks in his story and making sure everything is perfect before people make things 100% for it. Sorry he's trying to make it perfect for everyone, lol

[Omnai Blackwind]

Oh, and most of the people who are part of the project and actually stick with it have school and relationships and jobs and lives that come before working on the project all the time, and stress pulls away from people working on something they want to go into with a clear mind. So, yeah.

[Mellow]

While its true that you may think those are invalid reasons, this is not a project being done out of the goodness of our hearts. Its something we are doing because we enjoy it. And it is not a priority above college, relationships, etc. It's a hobby. So valid excuses really aren't needed.

 

And on the topic of our realistic goals versus our possible goals, this is coming from team members that left months ago. Since then, we have rethought our approach, and those concerns are rendered invalid, because no one but current team members really know what our goals are. So if we could please stop the discussion of why so and so left, that would be great, because to be blunt, those concerns are no longer valid.

 

And on the subject of promises and generally leading the public on, also invalid. I've promised nothing beyond promising that nothing would be promised. I'm not leading anyone along, and no one seemed to give a rat's ass about this project until the thread was revived, anyways.

[Omnai Blackwind]

While its true that you may think those are invalid reasons, this is not a project being done out of the goodness of our hearts. Its something we are doing because we enjoy it. And it is not a priority above college, relationships, etc. It's a hobby. So valid excuses really aren't needed.

 

And on the topic of our realistic goals versus our possible goals, this is coming from team members that left months ago. Since then, we have rethought our approach, and those concerns are rendered invalid, because no one but current team members really know what our goals are. So if we could please stop the discussion of why so and so left, that would be great, because to be blunt, those concerns are no longer valid.

 

And on the subject of promises and generally leading the public on, also invalid. I've promised nothing beyond promising that nothing would be promised. I'm not leading anyone along, and no one seemed to give a rat's ass about this project until the thread was revived, anyways.

This^  

[Antidote]

Why is it that people feel entitled to a FAN Project, that very premise should tell them something.

[SoulofDeity]

The only reason things don't seem reasonable is, as I said, most people have an irrational fear of low level programming. If more people actually researched into the more complicated areas of actors then programming new ones wouldn't seem like such a huge task. All it requires is an understanding of assembly code and how to use a debugger (and interest, of course). There is enough information out there already to make programming completely new NPCs possible, as I've shown. The fact that only a small minority of people ever tried programming actors at all does not mean nobody can do it, it just means nobody really tried.

 

No, the reason they seem unreasonable is because they've never been done. Anything is possible, it's "technically" possible to dissassemble the entire game and all it's resources into a project folder, change what you want, and rebuild the rom from scratch. The point is those things have never been done, and there is no one with experience doing so.

 

And like I said. all custom (from scratch, not modified) actors to date have done nothing but stand there. Talking is cool, but it's not the same as interacting physically.

 

We have all of those now. There just aren't many tools made specifically for MM so I guess that's why most people avoid it. Most people still interested in the games are taking on their own projects too, which makes OoT more useful to them. If anybody seriously wanted to start hacking MM then the lack of information on it shouldn't be an issue anyway.

 

Of course you do now  X_X. If at least some of that stuff hadn't been found after 2 years of work, it'd be really pathetic. >_>

The point I was making is that the information is not readily available to the public, and to a person starting with jack squat a lot of research would have to be made to get all the resources needed.

 

 

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And also, claiming to have made progress, but not showing anything is pretty much the same as making a promise. You make people expect to see something at some point in time.

 

It's not about entitlement, it's about attention. You wouldn't walk into a hotel lobby and shout "EVERYONE LOOK OVER HERE!!" then question wtf they're looking at you

[Airikita]

Of course mods are just hobbies, and everything should come first, otherwise you just end up homeless if all you did was mod in your life.

[SoulofDeity]

Of course mods are just hobbies, and everything should come first, otherwise you just end up homeless if all you did was mod in your life.

 

I never said they shouldn't have a life. I made a point that 10 or so people working on a single project for nearly 2 years and should have at least something to show for it by now.

 

You say you make no promises but progress is being made, you've shown no work but get mad when people ask if the project is cancelled after a questionable name change.

 

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Anyway, last post in this topic...I'm entering debate mode and I hate long and awkward fights.

 

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EDIT:

 

Just wanted to say sorry for the bs. I get worked up easily, think too much, am too defensive of my opinions, and say one too many words. I'm also really bad at phrasing exactly what it is I'm trying to say without coming off as arrogant and bitchy.

[Mellow]

I never ran around screaming about how much progress was being made. In fact, I've been pretty clear that progress has been fucking slow. 

[Agnostic Priest]

yeah when i tried quitting it was in a gridlock, and people were posting random stuff, its picking up speed now though

tried quitting but marshmellow put me back in the chat, and blinx created a party chat so that kind of thing wouldnt flood the project chat

[Conker]

 

I never got pissed at anything you said in the team chat. >.>

 

 

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Sent from my iPhone, because Siri has my manhood in her purse... or something.

 

I think this was before you joined the team.

 

 

But... I was in it way before you? o.0

[Mellow]

Branden was a member from day one.

[Airikita]

Whatever the progress is, it would be cool to know if there has been any work done, even theoretical.

[EXIA]

Now that the project name has been revealed, I'd like to share the first piece of music I composed when I joined the Antiqua team. I'd like to assure everyone (as other people have done already) that the other project members and I really do care about what we're doing with this mod.

The name has a particularly strong connection with this short track (at least in my mind).

Fall of Antiqua

 

 

EDIT apologies for not looping, I only have around 2 minutes left on my soundcloud account, I haven't upgraded to pro membership yet, but it's on my to do list.

[Spire]

So damn good. It's a totally new piece of music, but sounds like it was originally written for Majora's Mask tried and true. I am anxious to hear more of your music EJ!

[EXIA]

Cheers Spire, I'm sure I'll have some new stuff to show once I've fully settled in my new city!

[DeathBasket]

And like I said. all custom (from scratch, not modified) actors to date have done nothing but stand there. Talking is cool, but it's not the same as interacting physically.

Sorry, but:

 

Not true.

I programmed that actor from scratch in C, using en_anim that spinout wrote earlier as a guide for the animation part. I fail to see how this does "nothing but stand there". Interaction? The collision for the actor was fully working, if that's what you mean. Besides, what does a generic NPC do other than stand there and talk to you?

 

Sorry for bringing this up again but yeah.