Nintendo is aware of Wii U Hackers

[Airikita]

http://www.slashgear.com/nintendo-confirms-hacker-claim-for-wii-u-mod-chip-01280121/

 

So I was looking a bit into the laws, and apparently modding/hacking games is not illegal on a wider spectrum, however, the laws about Nintendo are against warez and piracy, not generally hacking itself. Also it is illegal to distribute files on the web, however Nintendo is still unclear if this means just creating a mod is illegal.

 

I am considering legal issues with modding, and don't want Nintendo to think we're just evil little video game fans out to destroy their company.

 

I do wish them luck on dealing with the bigger hacks, I disagree with certain modding/hacking groups and pirates. They give general modders a bad image, and I don't want to break the law by enjoying the game a bit more.

 

I think there is a big misunderstanding with modding/hacking, but it seems to be a bit better in the public eye. There are copyright matters, which should also be considered when modding a game. If it is illegal, then I will back off, but Nintendo's policy doesn't state that it's illegal to mod/hack a game itself, but piracy and warez is.

 

Modding a game can become a form of warez if piracy becomes a part of it. I spit on these Wii U hackers, because they're just ape-shit crazy to do this!

 

This is not to be mistaken with modders of other games... it can be illegal, but Nintendo's policy is not well-written to state modification of a game is illegal. If it does state it somewhere, it's difficult to find.

[xdaniel]

So this is mainly about the kind of hacking we're doing, I think...?

 

If Nintendo cared about that, they'd have long since hit other, more high-profile ROM hackers/modders with cease and desists. For example, look at the Mother 3 fan translation: It was highly publicised, even in more mainstream gaming media, I'm very sure Nintendo was well aware of it, and Tomato & co. would've immediately stopped working on it if Nintendo had told them to. They didn't.

 

Or take reproduction cartridges: It seems like there's always carts of Zelda: Parallel Worlds on eBay, and especially in the case of those repros - where people sell what amounts to modified pirate cartridges for profit - they would step in and prevent this... if they cared.

 

Really, I wouldn't worry about this, unless you'd be planning to sell your hacks on cartridge or something.

 

[HeavyZ]

I don't care if Nintendo thinks it's illegal, or not to hack a game. If they did make it illegal, I would simply go on a web forum site where I don't have to have a screen name, or password. Then I would Anonymously distrubute my rom, or patch on the site. Then other people would take more of a risk then I would to distribute it all over the web.. well as long as the hack was good enough.

I can "get" all of the free video games I want all over the web, but I still collect real video games, I've even bought games that are on my Everdrive64 cart.

When I get every PS2 game on HDD and hook the HDD into the back of my PS2 I'm still going to buy anything that is worth playing on PS2.

[Airikita]

So this is mainly about the kind of hacking we're doing, I think...?

 

If Nintendo cared about that, they'd have long since hit other, more high-profile ROM hackers/modders with cease and desists. For example, look at the Mother 3 fan translation: It was highly publicised, even in more mainstream gaming media, I'm very sure Nintendo was well aware of it, and Tomato & co. would've immediately stopped working on it if Nintendo had told them to. They didn't.

 

Or take reproduction cartridges: It seems like there's always carts of Zelda: Parallel Worlds on eBay, and especially in the case of those repros - where people sell what amounts to modified pirate cartridges for profit - they would step in and prevent this... if they cared.

 

Really, I wouldn't worry about this, unless you'd be planning to sell your hacks on cartridge or something.

 

That's my point exactly... I was just looking into it for concerns about what we're doing, and I'm positive Nintendo would have shut us down. Until they let us know, I'll keep going because I'm learning so much from it. Of course I don't plan on selling them. I love hacking for the purpose of what I might want to do for a job. I hear anti-virus companies hack to figure out how viruses work, so I'm taking this on for fun and a learning experience.

 

 

 

I don't care if Nintendo thinks it's illegal, or not to hack a game. If they did make it illegal, I would simply go on a web forum site where I don't have to have a screen name, or password. Then I would Anonymously distrubute my rom, or patch on the site. Then other people would take more of a risk then I would to distribute it all over the web.. well as long as the hack was good enough.

I can "get" all of the free video games I want all over the web, but I still collect real video games, I've even bought games that are on my Everdrive64 cart.

When I get every PS2 game on HDD and hook the HDD into the back of my PS2 I'm still going to buy anything that is worth playing on PS2.

 

Right, and I'm not going to say anything against it... I'm just considering the situation with Nintendo. All I'm saying is, if they find an issue with it, they should let us know.

[HeavyZ]

Right, and I'm not going to say anything against it... I'm just considering the situation with Nintendo. All I'm saying is, if they find an issue with it, they should let us know.

I don't think they have a problem with any of us hacking the older games that are not being sold on shelves. I mean I know a few websites that sell repro carts for Snes, and Nes. One other that sells Game Boys, original, pockets, color's, advance, with custom front light screens.

They have to know about what's all going on, they just don't sweat it I think.

[Airikita]

 

Right, and I'm not going to say anything against it... I'm just considering the situation with Nintendo. All I'm saying is, if they find an issue with it, they should let us know.

I don't think they have a problem with any of us hacking the older games that are not being sold on shelves. I mean I know a few websites that sell repro carts for Snes, and Nes. One other that sells Game Boys, original, pockets, color's, advance, with custom front light screens.

They have to know about what's all going on, they just don't sweat it I think.

 

Yeah, I'm just considering the recent issues since the Wii hackers started. I'm sure they're busy trying to track them down.

[SeithDarkwraith]

You can legally make and sell NES/SNES games as far as I'm aware, due to the console's copyright running out

[xdaniel]

You can legally make and sell NES/SNES games as far as I'm aware, due to the console's copyright running out

 

Your own homebrew games, sure, like Battle Kid for NES, but reproductions of official games (prototypes, ROM hacks based on official games, etc.) are a legal gray area at the very least, but likely technically illegal.

[CM30]

I really don't think they care much about video game modding.  After all, there are way bigger, more popular groups and communities involved here.

 

You've got SMW Central and Super Mario (not just world any more) ROM hacking, which has been around for about a decade and is pretty well known.

 

You've got New Super Mario Bros/New Super Mario Bros Wii modding, which has taken off.

 

People making custom resources for Super Smash Bros Brawl, including a lot of big sites dedicated to it and videos on Youtube.  Think Project M.

 

Pokemon ROM hacking is popular in many places and is pretty well known.  Zelda Link to the Past ROM hacks are getting more popular.  Super Mario 64 hacking is quite well known now.

 

 

And hey, you've got stuff like this, where people have a whole project going to edit Super Mario Galaxy:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iatTKUw00Vo

 

Trust me, if they were going to be all harsh on it, they'd have gone after much of the above way, way more quickly than this site.  Hell, some of the communities mentioned are even posted about on big news sites.

[Airikita]

The NES games I'm pretty sure are open to modding... the copyright is getting outdated, but Nintendo also produces newer and newer consoles that are being hacked.

 

 

 

Trust me, if they were going to be all harsh on it, they'd have gone after much of the above way, way more quickly than this site.  Hell, some of the communities mentioned are even posted about on big news sites.

 

Maybe, but Nintendo's site says they're working with law enforcements to catch hackers of newer consoles... there's a split with certain game hackers, and I'm against hacking/modding/pirating on newer games/consoles.

 

We can debate about copyright issues, but I'm discussing Nintendo's side on this.

 

I am a fan of Nintendo, and I will stick by any rules they have if they have any issues with our community. That's all I'm saying.

[CM30]

I'm assuming they're talking about this in more of a 'don't let the console get hacked to avoid piracy' sense.  It's most likely an issue now because the Wii U hasn't even been out a full year and because Nintendo are worried these hackers could be opening up their newest console (and hence current money making venture) to warez/stolen games.  Or because that one guy on Twitter went boasting about how if he was arrested, he was going to leak everything about the Wii U including the devkit (as well as that of the new Xbox and PS4):

 

http://kotaku.com/next-gen-hacker-superdae-threatens-to-leak-troves-of-ga-509968073

 

They're worried about this kind of stuff. I doubt they give a damn about what happens to older games unless people are actually giving them away online (hence why they go after ROM sites).  It makes very little difference that people are making hacks of Ocarina of Time or the like, so why even bother doing anything?  They likely consider it more worth the effort to go after people trying to break their latest systems.

 

I also suspect they don't particularly want the bad publicity that would occur if they did go after some of these older/smaller communities.  Better to try and stop someone from hacking the system in the first place and opening it to pirated games that go after fans of older systems/titles that are doing pretty much sod all to Nintendo's finances.

[xdaniel]

As far as I understand it, copyright usually lasts for the life of the author + a number of years, so even NES games are still far from falling into the public domain: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries%27_copyright_lengths

 

And I wouldn't exactly trust what Nintendo or their own website states about piracy, emulators, ROMs, etc. Of course they phrase it so that everything they don't like is illegal. Emulators aren't, for example, plus patents for parts of the NES hardware are running out or have run out, so making NES emulators or reimplementations in particular is now (mostly?) legal, etc., etc.

 

I'm not a lawyer, tho, so take all I say with a grain of salt.

[Airikita]

As far as I understand it, copyright usually lasts for the life of the author + a number of years, so even NES games are still far from falling into the public domain: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries%27_copyright_lengths

 

And I wouldn't exactly trust what Nintendo or their own website states about piracy, emulators, ROMs, etc. Of course they phrase it so that everything they don't like is illegal. Emulators aren't, for example, plus patents for parts of the NES hardware are running out or have run out, so making NES emulators or reimplementations in particular is now (mostly?) legal, etc., etc.

 

I'm not a lawyer, tho, so take all I say with a grain of salt.

Well, that's why their policy is a bit odd... they say certain things are illegal are the kinds of things they haven't taken action on. If emulators and roms were a huge deal, there would have been a major shut-down of largely-known emulator/rom distribution sites.... so this is why I have a conflict in understanding their legal actions.

[SeithDarkwraith]

Emulators as a file are PERFECTLY legal. They're only built to run certain files, the coding done for them was entirely done by an independent sourxe away from the game companies. Owning a ROM or ISO of a game is only technically legal if you own the game in a physical/digital copy you paid for from an online service or from a store.

[Librarian]

EOwning a ROM or ISO of a game is only technically legal if you own the game in a physical/digital copy you paid for from an online service or from a store.

 

'Can I Download a Nintendo ROM from the Internet if I Already Own the Authentic Game?

There is a good deal of misinformation on the Internet regarding the backup/archival copy exception. It is not a "second copy" rule and is often mistakenly cited for the proposition that if you have one lawful copy of a copyrighted work, you are entitled to have a second copy of the copyrighted work even if that second copy is an infringing copy. The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet.'

-http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp

[xdaniel]

The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet.

-http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp

 

And how is Big Brother Nintendo supposed to check if I dumped the ROM myself, or if I downloaded it off the net? Unless there's an intro or trainer attached, like how it happened with more than enough GBA ROMs, there's no way for them to know.

 

I actually wouldn't be surprised if - in the event someone would ever need to testify or demonstrate how they acquired their ROMs - Nintendo would just flat out refuse to acknowledge that someone might have dumped the ROMs themselves.

 

[Airikita]

Okay, so it's saying that downloading a ROM to play the game without owning it is illegal, which is completely understandable. Still, the way it is worded can be confusing.

 

Also, the convenience of being able to dump your own ROM is limited... this needs to be reviewed.

 

I mean, I could dump it if I knew where to get the materials for it... I mean, I could buy the supplies, and make it easier by just downloading the ROM so that I don't risk my own cart/disc.

[Librarian]

the way it is worded can be confusing.

The way the whole page is worded can be confusing, if not unprofessional. -"That's like asking why doesn't Nintendo legitimize piracy."What kind of professional site says 'that's like asking"?

[mzxrules]

A site that has to communicate legal matters to children

[HeavyZ]

Nintendo cannot simply "make" laws they are not a country, they are not the UN. When it comes to the fact that you have a rom downloaded off the internet why would it be illegal if you already own the copy? There's no harm, no fowl. You paid for the game, you just have a back up, for your personal use. There's many possible reasons somone would do this. For instance, Wii, and gamecube games load faster off of USB, hard drive, or SD. You could say "I didn't want to wait as long for the game to load". Sure they may have no way of knowing for sure, and you may end up going to court, but you could just bring your copy of the real game to court.

 

People pay money for Lawyers in the most rediculous situations, it wouldn't take a lawyer to explain that you've paid for the game, and you only have a digital copy for back up purposes. It's not stealing if you own it. It's as simple as that.

[giadrosich]

Nintendo cannot simply "make" laws they are not a country, they are not the UN. When it comes to the fact that you have a rom downloaded off the internet why would it be illegal if you already own the copy? There's no harm, no fowl. You paid for the game, you just have a back up, for your personal use. There's many possible reasons somone would do this. For instance, Wii, and gamecube games load faster off of USB, hard drive, or SD. You could say "I didn't want to wait as long for the game to load". Sure they may have no way of knowing for sure, and you may end up going to court, but you could just bring your copy of the real game to court.

 

People pay money for Lawyers in the most rediculous situations, it wouldn't take a lawyer to explain that you've paid for the game, and you only have a digital copy for back up purposes. It's not stealing if you own it. It's as simple as that.

I'm not a lawyer either, but by them being the Intellectual Property owner, I believe they can determine the use of their product.

 

"A copyright is an exclusive right granted to an author of a literary, musical, audiovisual or artistic work, giving the author the sole right to reproduce and distribute that work. There are several different types of copyrights which are associated with Nintendo's products. These include various copyrights in Nintendo's software source code, executable code, game visual display, game music, game characters, product packaging, game manuals and labels; hardware chip microcode; artwork and publications."

 

They do say on their website that they don't approve of the 'second copy' argument. Now, whether or not they can take you to court and win that's another matter. By all means, you can shift through this if you want to: http://doperoms.com/dmca.pdf

 

Now, this also brings up the question of items like this that are sold:

https://www.thinkgeek.com/product/f280/?srp=2

 

I want to know how THIS is legal. They even say:

"But ThinkGeek," you ask. "Where can I procure old skool gaming roms to load onto the Pocket Retro Game Emulator?" Well, young gamer, we hear tell of a mystical soothsayer named "Google." Upon entering such phrases as "NES roms" or "SNES roms," a person may be directed to easily download such roms. But keep in mind that our attorneys do not approve of such behavior and the above statement is likely completely untrue. In fact, you should probably forget about this whole conversation. A handheld gaming system that can play all your favorite old classic console games? Nope. Just too good to be true

If someone actually did some research, they'd realize that these could be played for FREE, not for 150 bucks.

[HeavyZ]

http://doperoms.com/dmca.pdf

That's only for the United States.

 

"4

first published in the United States or such treaty party, as the case

may be.’’; and

(2) by adding at the end the following new subsection:

‘‘(d) EFFECT OF

PHONOGRAMS

TREATIES

.—Notwithstanding the

provisions of subsection ( , no works other than sound recordings

shall be eligible for protection under this title solely by virtue of the

adherence of the United States to the Geneva Phonograms Conven-

tion or the WIPO Performances and Phonograms Treaty.’’.

 

I don't think the above is all that it protects. For the sake of not having to read every little thing lets just say that it protects all kinds of media.

 

It say's something about what all other countrys may be protected under the act, but that is litterally the worst page for copying and pasting.

Basically if the Country becomes a member of the WTO and adhears to the amendment acts and such.

 

There's a lot to read for the limitations of the act sections 5- 14

maybe someone with more time, and as much understanding of law could summarize this up. I skimmed through what I could as fast as I could.

 

The Law is normally written very vaguely so if need be the rules can be bent in whoever's favor depending on the situation, and whoever "Who" is.. Sections 5-14 should be all one really needs to know. That and what all Country's are members of the WTO and all that jazz.

[Airikita]

There is also a statement somewhere that indicates now that downloaders are not the criminals, it is the file distributors (websites and the like) that can be prosecuted if the copyright owner chooses to go to court with the issue. In fact, even though it states they do not support people owning a second copy, it does not mean that the recipient of the file is at fault.

 

I mean, it's difficult to determine since ROM sites still exist. Until Nintendo starts taking them down, it is unclear if it is a crime. Besides, I still buy their products - I'm a Nintendo fan.

[CM30]

There is also a statement somewhere that indicates now that downloaders are not the criminals, it is the file distributors (websites and the like) that can be prosecuted if the copyright owner chooses to go to court with the issue. In fact, even though it states they do not support people owning a second copy, it does not mean that the recipient of the file is at fault.

 

I mean, it's difficult to determine since ROM sites still exist. Until Nintendo starts taking them down, it is unclear if it is a crime. Besides, I still buy their products - I'm a Nintendo fan.

 

Personally, I'd say it's more like how the police prosecute those with counterfeit goods.  They don't bother going after individuals who ended up with them (possibly accidentally), they go after those trying to distribute them/make a commercial business out of it.

 

I guess the same goes for ROMs and the like. Going after individual downloaders is basically pointless and does nothing, whereas going after those hosting the ROMs might theoretically have more of an effect.  Of course, theoretically being the right word, since I'd guess that many of the worst offenders are probably based in countries with near non existant laws to begin with, and shutting down one just causes a bunch more to pop up.