Let's Make a Hoax!

[Kargaroc]

Each segment of the dungeon could have it's own miniboss?  That would be pretty cool, though I don't actually know how doable that is, it depends on what kind of minibosses they are.

 

 

On another note, we should probably have a quick cheat sheet that describes in simple and consise terms, what we want to see.

Stuff like, what [kinds of] puzzles we want to see, a brief description of the setting for each segment (Wind Temple, Ice Temple segments for example).  I'd be willing to do that.

[HeavyZ]

Sounds good. Do you or anyone else think that they planned on making a Spirit Temple back when they were working on Zelda 64? I'm sure Spire might have a pretty knowledgeable guess at the least.

Just saying so that maybe a part of the dungeon resembling the Spirit Temple might or not might be included.

[Kargaroc]

Wait... wasn't Child Link not even in the game unitl later?

 

Well I'm not amazingly knowlegable about the geneology of the dungeons, but I'd have to bet that these images

depict a very early version of the outside of the Spirit temple.  This is up in the air of course, but usually, USUALLY, if a dungeon was made, it probably made it into the game in some form.  The Light temple being an exception of course.

 

Of course, just by looking at the images do you get a feeling for how much different it could of been.  Which basically means you have almost free reign over the design of the puzzles.

[HeavyZ]

I have no clue if he was or not. I've only seen footage of Adult Link. I've never even seen those pictures their before, but yes I get what you're saying and free reign is good haha. Though I would try to stay true to the puzzle elements used in each of the dungeons of OoT for the most part.. kinda like in Ganon's Castle. I'm more interested in what kind of puzzles and enemy's would have been used in the Wind Temple. The fans that are used in the Shadow Temple come to mind, hover boots as well, but I have no clue about the enemy's other than ones that can fly. 

[Secant]

Kargaroc brings up a good point regarding including time-travel elements, so I don't think we should include anything that would require young Link (unless, of course, this happens to be a result of broken actor numbers). I also don't think it would be a good idea to include extra bosses on each floor; for one, there's just too many--this would quickly become a task possibly over my head by the sheer size of the dungeon, just for the sake of a hoax. Secondly, I don't think it would make much sense for all of the bosses set in the final game to make an appearance in a dungeon that was supposed to be scrapped early on in development.

 

Regarding the architecture of the dungeon, I agree that more hallways will likely be a good idea, so I'll try to take that into consideration when making the layout.

 

I also think it would be interesting to see a "restored" version of the map with correct actor placements, but depending on how the final map ends up being (especially since it will be intended to be unfinished, with some rooms just having random actors that may not even do anything, just being placeholders) this may be somewhat difficult. Although, by the same token, we could also say that some of the rooms had broken map headers which cause crashes, and then release the entire dungeon which is more or less fully functional, claiming to have fixed those headers and whatever else may be applicable.

[xdaniel]

Regarding bosses, and, I guess, in case there won't be a restored version: what about creating a few (mini-)boss rooms, but simply not populating them? Or just putting in a blue warp that leads nowhere or some unrelated place, kinda like in 121?

 

[Spire]

Blue warps should be used to travel between the floors and should be found in "mini boss rooms", most, if not all of which are unpopulated. Bazinga!

[Kargaroc]

Works for me

 

My only concern is that maybe the "miniboss" rooms shouldn't be used for traveling floors.  Perhaps have their own rooms for that.  Like an entrance room or something.

As for the miniboss rooms themselves, I'd do as xdaniel said.

 

Or maybe, a few miniboss rooms could be used as entrance/exits as a temporary thing.  The older levels would have them.

[Conker]

Know what'd be cool? In a miniboss room, have a custom, crappy/unfinished-looking enemy model just standing in the center doing nothing.

[Jason777]

Perhaps three rooms per floor (except for the Chamber of Sages)? The rooms would symbolize Courage, Wisdom, and Power. It would end up being... a lot of rooms. Just throwing them out there though.

 

I'm liking the idea of travelling between floors through warps.

[HeavyZ]

You bring up a good point about the bosses Secant, I thought about it myself, though I didn't know if there was a general idea of what kind of bosses would be used or not in the early development of the game, or if there were even beta versions of them in Zelda 64. I'm with everyone on the mini boss rooms, and the blue warps idea. If the warps are in the mini boss rooms or not wouldn't make a difference in my mind. It would make traveling across the dungeon much faster.

If we implement Xdan's idea about one warp leading to a unrelated area, then should we make it so that after you get the Triforce you go through a room behind it and then there is that blue warp that leads to some unrelated place? or it could be activated after the player obtains the Triforce like after you defeat a boss? It would make sense to say the place it warps you too was previously another map that got ported over, or changed drastically. What happens after the player obtains the Triforce? Would there be a cutscene? or just a "Dah nah nah naah" noise and a brief text explanation, maybe even something said by Navi afterwards? ....those idea's could make it easier to claim a hoax since text can easily be searched for in the game. Making the game crash after you obtain it could make it more believable.

I think Xdans idea would be good for the temple regardless what room it is in.

[Conker]

Know what'd be cool? In a miniboss room, have a custom, crappy/unfinished-looking enemy model just standing in the center doing nothing.

Bumping this up for the new page.

[Kargaroc]

Since I'm making this resource sheet, what items should we disallow for making puzzles exactly?

[CDi-Fails]

I think it'd be cool if in the middle of the room, instead of a stationary model, have a model in the messed up "hierarchy" pose where every limb is pointed in the same direction, then at the end of the video have an image of it in the T-Pose, showing what it actually looks like.

[HeavyZ]

What about most items that were never seen in previous Zelda games. Excluding the fire, ice, and light arrows? I would think they would have had those in Zelda 64.. or at least they are the next best thing to the fire and ice rods. Light Arrows because of Silver Arrows in Previous Zelda games.

 

Edited: Keeping a few select other puzzles that use other items wouldn't be bad either

[Conker]

I think it'd be cool if in the middle of the room, instead of a stationary model, have a model in the messed up "hierarchy" pose where every limb is pointed in the same direction, then at the end of the video have an image of it in the T-Pose, showing what it actually looks like.

Yeah, that sounds better.

[Kargaroc]

How about, when obtaining the Triforce, it displays empty text boxes?

Kinda like how the unused cutscenes in Majora's Mask display empty text boxes...

[HeavyZ]

Empty text boxes sounds legit.

[Kargaroc]

What about most items that were never seen in previous Zelda games. Excluding the fire, ice, and light arrows? I would think they would have had those in Zelda 64.. or at least they are the next best thing to the fire and ice rods. Light Arrows because of Silver Arrows in Previous Zelda games.

 

Edited: Keeping a few select other puzzles that use other items wouldn't be bad either

 

I believe they did, though you were supposed to use them with the meddallions.  So yes, special arrows are allowed.

 

What about Tunics?  There are prototype screens that show different tunics, but not during early A+B+C (the original, with druping C icons and graphics from A+C).

 

 

In that case, we should disallow tunic puzzles, not like there is much.

[HeavyZ]

I don't know. Maybe the Tunics originally only reduced the amount of damage you could take?

[Secant]

Either way, it's unlikely tunics could be used in conjunction with any puzzles given what there is to work with in the game or based on what could easily be made for this hoax. As for a miniboss in the hierarchy pose, I definitely think this would be a good idea to go with, and traveling to different parts of the dungeon via blue warps could make sense if they were in the room beyond the miniboss chamber. Or, if we went the route of just putting the warp in place of whatever the miniboss might have been, whoever uploads the video could toss in some speculation that based on where the warps lead, the blue warp actor could have originally been a prototype Stalfos and the different locations they lead to could have corresponded to variables determining what kind of Stalfos it was with respect to this particular dungeon. Each floor would have to be a different scene if there's no other connecting rooms between the floors, though.

[Jason777]

Actually, Secant, everything could still be in one scene. There would have to be mutiple entrances defined in the scenes entrance index. We would also have to overwrite more than one entry in the exit table.

[Kargaroc]

I've been thinking, how about using select puzzles from other dungeons (particularly the Water Temple)?

Because, maybe, when it was supposedly "cut", some of the puzzles would've been incorporated into other dungeons.

 

I say particularly the Water Temple because it was added late in development, and anything cut earlier on puzzle wise would've probably been dumped into it.

The Forest Temple probably as well, since I'm assuming that it's puzzle layout was vastly different at the time this "was cut".

 

 

The first puzzle that comes to mind is the block puzzle near the beginning of the Water Temple, where you have to push the blocks in the tunnel to progress.  It's simple enough to be fitting in the Zelda 64 style, easy to implement, and it's archatecture is also very Zelda 64-esque.

 

 

BTW, I also updated my Zelda 64 style description

https://www.the-gcn.com/topic/2537-lets-make-a-hoax/page-3?do=findComment&comment=40569

[sairugoth]

What if when you beat the dungeon it glitches and your emulator errors out. That would make them believe its real.

[HeavyZ]

I could test it on an N64 flash cart after it's done. Assuming that anyone would be worried about that.. someone might try to say it's fake if it doesn't work on real hardware like every other debug room in the game. Although... I think there is one that doesn't work, I'm not sure if it's because of real hardware or it needed a patch. I know it's not the Stalfo's church like room, but maybe the Vanilla Room.