What could/should/would Nintendo do to save themselves?

[I M Evil]

Well, the topic is kinds self-explanatory. Let's look at some numbers shall we?

 

During the time period april 1 to june 30, Nintendo has shipped(shipped, not SOLD) 160k WiiU units worldwide.

90k to Japan, 60k to the US and 10k to the remaining world.

However... they've set 9M WiiU units until march 31 2014. Considering the low sales figures so far, will they reach those 9Ms?

 

also, the projected WiiU sales up until march 31 2013 were to 5.5M and later lowered to 4M.

the harsh truth is that Nintendo so far has sold 3.61M WiiU units.

 

So, in your own honest opinion, how could they turn this around?

There's really no BIG titles planned until 2014 and by then, the PS4 and X1 will co-occupy the market as well.

 

Was it really a smart move to use the gamepad as it's main controller when everybody and their grandmother have some sort of smartphone/tablet?

Are Satoru Iwata really the right man for the job? and what about Shigeru Miyamoto? has he really done anything noteworthy since OoT?

my gut feeling says that Shiggy has long-gone run out of ideas and now only feeds of the ideas he had 20 something years ago.

[Conker]

I'm going to get heat for this, but I would not at all object to Nintendo pulling a SEGA. At least for home consoles. They're doing just fine with portables.

[Antidote]

Give it time, the Wii U is a new console with new gimmicks, it may take a bit for it to get some deal breaking game and cause a win. But I'm not against them pulling a Sega either. I just think it's a little early yet, and I'm not going to count them out, the GCN had a similarly rocky start and it did just fine after about a year. The Wii U only came out last November, so it hasn't quite been a year yet, If come may next year the Wii U hasn't improved then yes it may be a complete failure.

 

I'm hoping that Nintendo pulls a Sony and allows indie devs to do their thing :3

I'd be one of them on that bandwagon, I really like the Gamepad.

[HeavyZ]

I think it's the economy, and the prices of the WiiU are really keeping it from being sold to the potential it could, people don't have the money to buy whatever these days. Given the choice most people are probably going to go with the PS4, or new Xbox. the new Xbox sales being questionable considering what they did to themselves at E3 and how badly burnt they got by Sony lol.

If Nintendo did what the majority of the gaming community wanted, if they listened more, instead of gambling on their own idea's so much they wouldn't be in the situation they are in. The WiiU has good graphics, but there are still pros and cons to owning a game on the WiiU, instead of on an Xbox360. That's without taking online gaming into question too, which is pretty bad considering WiiU is New Gen, and Xbox360 isn't far from quitting and moving on to the new Xbox.

The WiiU is nice and all, I'm definitely going to buy one, but if it had the specs to keep up with the newer gen consoles that are going to be released to compete with it, then more people would buy it. People want more than what it has to offer, and so do game developers. That's why the first Wii didn't do so well, it had good idea's backed behind it, and they could have produced a lot more badass games with the motion controls, but not many developers did. You know why? Because it wasn't as advanced as the PS3, or Xbox360 as far as graphics, and processing power went. They didn't have many good games for the Wii, and ones that were good, like SpiderMan Edge of Time didn't sell that well on it because it was released with much more beautiful graphics on other systems, and with better controls. You shouldn't have to buy a different type of controller to play games like Smash Brawl, or own used ones from an old system. They screwed themselves on those departments, and they should just cancel the WiiU asap and release a WiiU2 with better specs and backwards compatibility for WiiU, and Wii games if they want to survive. It would hurt them if they did so because of so many WiiU's already have been made to sell, but yeah I predict that they are going to pull a Sega, because this new console will never have the price their last one did, not until it's death, so most dumb parents, or older people who aren't even gamers won't buy it. Especially since they might consider the Kinect to be just as fun or more so when they aren't like the more hardcore people who want diversity, or know what has the better content released for what.

[Conker]

Hrm, I didn't get any heat. Then I will step it up a notch and say what I truly think:

 

I hope they pull a SEGA.

 

They've been making bad decisions with the Wii U, and I'm just not too fond of the console (it looks good, but besides a few games that are coming out for it later, it doesn't interest me too much). I'd rather have all of my favorite Nintendo characters/games on Sony's consoles (a result of pulling a SEGA, they'd be software-only, their franchises would go third party, multiplatform), mixed in with all of Sony's awesome characters/games.

 

Basically, what I'm saying is, I want all of my favorite console-exclusive games on one platform. And Nintendo pulling a SEGA would give me that.

[Agnostic Priest]

The thing with nintendo, is they developed an image, a "kid friendly" image. what happened was while their audience was maturing, they products weren't.

 

The only way they could save themselves from their imminent demise, is if they appealed to their original audience. which im aware they are trying to.the wii really burned out much of nintendo's fanbase. while there were some excellent games, that really are amazing. there too much "nintendogs" and shit like thatits difficult for the consumer to expect different from a console of the same name with the letter U on it

[HeavyZ]

I hope they pull a SEGA.

Basically, what I'm saying is, I want all of my favorite console-exclusive games on one platform. And Nintendo pulling a SEGA would give me that.

I wouldn't be against that idea. The less consoles I have to buy the better. I think Sony and Xbox would do well enough pushing for better competing against each other.

Maybe it would make Nintendo think about a few things they should have done better.. like I dunno provide the best graphics possible in their games?

 

@Bobo

Yes they should stop trying to make it so kid friendly, I mean I couldn't say that an "M" rated Mario game would be suitable, but a darker tone for a new Mario series would be nice.

We could afford to see a little bloodshed in Zelda as well, we've seen Ganon be impaled, but no blood? the most we got was when Link delivered the final blow against Ganon in OoT, and I think that was green blood?

I'd vote for a villain, or two actually using some light cursing as well, I mean I don't want them saying "Fuck", or "Shit" but the words "Dammit" or "Bastard" wouldn't really be crossing the line.

 

Let's not forget, while it wasn't made by Nintendo themselves the Metroid Prime series was pretty dark. I mean Super Metroid had a dark atmosphere, but it didn't show dead space soldiers, and corpses.

[Conker]

Yeah, a darker Zelda really does sound like a good idea to me.

 

Like you said:

Mild cursing, blood, and what not. I'd also appreciate other darker themes, as well as (shoot me if you want) less color in the game. Not by a lot, but not so vibrant like SS and WW, more like TP.

 

Also other (moar other) darker themes. Link is always trying to save somebody, yes? Well, why not switch it up a bit? People are so used to him succeeding with the rescue, so...

 

The person you're trying to save, be it Princess Zelda, or some random childhood friend-type character (think Illia, or SS Zelda), should die. Not brutally, mind you, but should die.

Think about it: you just cleared the first set of dungeons, and you're going to the villain's lair to save person you need to save, then as you're ascending the flight of stairs, the girl stairs at you with a big smile of relief as the villain is holding her knowing she's going to be saved, then it happens... the villain lunges his weapon through the front of her chest, and the only thing he says about it is, "Whoops... a bit clumsy, hrm?"

 

This enrages Link, and he charges towards the villain, but gets thrown back by some kind of magic, villain escapes. The second half of the game is now about revenge, rather than saving a loved one/princess. Anyways, just throwing out what-ifs for a darker Zelda, that's all. I personally love the idea (as well as the scenario I presented), but I bet some people will only approach the idea with, "Wow, no thanks. That's too dark for Zelda."

 

Know what I think of that? Get over it. Change is good. And this particular change, mind you, is definitely good.

I want a darker, grittier Zelda. I don't care what people think. It would be for the better. That's all there is to it. Okay? Okay.

[Antidote]

 

Let's not forget, while it wasn't made by Nintendo themselves the Metroid Prime series was pretty dark. I mean Super Metroid had a dark atmosphere, but it didn't show dead space soldiers, and corpses.

 

Retro Studios is first party, therefore the Metroid Prime was made by Nintendo because Retro studios is PART of nintendo.

On top of that, the series co-creator, Yoshio Sakamoto, was on staff for the creation of each game and directly lead the development for each, and Koji Kondo also scored a few of the songs in the Prime series, most notably MP2's Dark Samus theme.

 

EDIT:Yes, i'm a massive Metroid Nerd XD

 

EDIT:

Retro Studios needs to be considered the same way as R&D* divisions were, which originally developed the Metroid series.

[HeavyZ]

Yeah sort of like how Ninja Gaiden for Xbox was, the theme was revenge. I like, I love light hearted games, and anime's, but it is time for a change in Zelda. The new one supposedly being highly influenced by Skyrim sounds pretty good. I hope you have the option of picking locks, breaking into homes, and stealing stuff. Killing guards, resisting arrest lol... Well it's not likely at all that the killing the guards part would make it in, but yeah. I got a feeling it's going to be like a Twilight Princess/Fable mix of gameplay, with an open world like Skyrim, and tons of sidequest.

I don't know if they would go as far as to introduce a new level up system, but that would be awesome.

If Nintendo did all of these things, they wouldn't be loved by just the hardcore Nintendo fans any longer, their audience would broaden.

 

Edited:

@Antidote, I didn't know, I had read a while back that they gave the project to a 3rd party or something, while overlooking and directing this or that. Taking your word and saying you're right, I guess that the 3rd party they spoke of was really like what you said

[Antidote]

To be entirely honest, I love how Nintendo develops their games, The games i mostly want to play on my Nintendo consoles are the more tame ones.

Occasionally I'll play Razors Edge on Wii U (damn fine game btw) when i want a more challenging romp, but mostly I prefer casual games with a good story.

 

Guess i'm not a "core" gamer xD

 

EDIT:

@heavy

At the start of the project Retro Studios was a third party, after Metroid Prime was a critical success, Nintendo made the decision to clear them for first party status. Retro had applied for it 3 times prior iirc, there is an entire interview about it.

 

At the start of development for Metroid Prime, they were working on three other titles for Nintendo, one was a game in the vane of Crazy Taxi, another was a football game, and the final was a game called "Raven Blade" you probably heard of it.

 

They cancelled all those games to concentrate on Metroid Prime.

 

On top of that most of the staff at that time were from a defunct development house "Iguana Entertainment" one of which being Jeff Spangleberg.

 

EDIT2:Please fact check me, it's late and I mostly wrote this from memory, I had to look up Jeff Spangleberg since i wanted to call him "John" for some reason.

[HeavyZ]

I believe you're right about all of that, though I can fact check later and edit this post. I believe they had someone else develope the 3rd Metroid Prime though. Though let's try not to throw this thread off topic.

[Antidote]

No Metroid Prime 3 was developed by Retro.

The only "Prime" game not developed by Retro was Hunters.

 

And yeah i think we've derailed this for long enough lol

[xdaniel]

Hrm, mainly directed at Blinx, but let's see...

 

Change isn't always good, although I gotta say your Zelda idea is nice. I don't even think a death would be needed, just a generally "darker" world or themes, as you said. More like TP, MM or even LA (because, dream or not and on purpose or not, you're actively working towards the "destruction" of the island and everyone on it, which the ending underscores quite well), less like SS or WW. Also - even though that's a general problem of gaming nowadays and it's been in Zelda in some capacity since at least the aformentioned LA - less hand-holding would be nice.

 

The other thing, about Nintendo pulling a Sega. I do not want them to cease being a platform holder, but - as long as they keep going the way they've been going since the Wii, and it sure looks that way, just without the success - I wouldn't be very sad either... or as long as it's only about consoles anyway, I do NOT want them to leave the handheld space.

 

I don't know if that opinion is solely based on habit, nostalgia or whatever, it might very well be, but there's one thing I do strongly believe here: If Nintendo would cease having their own handheld, and they and all other developers would move to ex. the Vita, many less well-known games would just get lost in the shuffle, in the glut of releases this one platform would receive, and just stop being made. Take JRPGs or whatever else - the ones that are bound to sell are those in big franchises, or those that turn out to be surprise hits. Everything else would move minuscule units and fade to obscurity, even moreso than when split between two different platforms. I very much think we'd have to say good-bye to niche titles like ex. Etrian Odyssey (hurry up and end already, August! <.<)

[DeathBasket]

 

I don't know if they would go as far as to introduce a new level up system, but that would be awesome.

 

What purpose would leveling up serve in a Zelda game? Becoming stronger or faster would make puzzles and enemies too easy. Needing to be certain levels to use certain equipment like in some games just makes absolutely no sense and makes me want to facepalm. As for learning new moves, that would be handled much better by doing it the way WW and TP did by having someone to teach you them.

 

 

 

I'd vote for a villain, or two actually using some light cursing as well

 

I don't know... for me this would not add to a game at all. I feel like it would take away from a villain's creative use of language, making them appear less intelligent and less of a formidable opponent. Or maybe I just feel that way because I barely meet anybody today who doesn't overuse curse words in every single sentence. It's such a shame for the English language.

 

@ rest of the thread

Yes, Nintendo games need to take a new direction. We need a (3D) Mario game that does something new, like SM64, SMS or SMG did at the time, rather than the same old NSMB rubbish that has been released and released again for the last few years. I'm not really sure what can be done with Zelda games though. If the typical storyline and structure they follow is kept then it's hard for any new games to really feel much different from the rest. SS was almost an amazing game, but the lack of a complete world to explore really killed it and it ended up feeling like a Mario game with three individual levels to visit. Some completely new ideas need to be put into the series, like what happened in MM, while keeping the same gameplay style. Aside from Mario and Zelda, what bobbo said is accurate:

 

the wii really burned out much of nintendo's fanbase. while there were some excellent games, that really are amazing. there too much "nintendogs" and shit like that

[HeavyZ]

@ DeathBasket

Skyrim has a level up system that has the monsters get harder every 10 levels you gain, so I don't see where that would be a problem if they used a similar concept. I feel that some of your opinions may be based on the fact that you like speed running, and level grinding doesn't seem very good for that. They could do without the timed puzzles, besides ALTTP had the Pegasus Boots, so there would be no need to make it that you run faster by leveling up, merely making it an obtainable item would work. As highly acclaimed as Skyrim is I don't see where taking idea's like that would be bad, I like leveling up, and I like challenges, and also working towards making the game easier for later. As long as it's challenging to gain either the lvls or items that make it easier later.

 

@Xdan

Yeah everyone who already likes Zelda would like darker themes, but if it had light cursing and it was a little more violent then people outside of the Nintendo fanbase would see and say "Oh maybe this isn't such a kids game". Every other game you slice an enemy with your sword, and you shoot them with an arrow, but there's no blood. I can't help but think people would see that and get the impression that it was made with kids in mind. Thus thinking it is a kids game. I think Skyward Sword had a dark concept here, or there, and it could have been better than Twilight Princess if they didn't have that stupid look for the Bokoblins. That dumb stupid jungle beat music every time an enemy approached, if they had a darker art style, and different music only in certain areas though, a lot of music was excellent. Less kiddie actor designs. I mean I like Skyward Sword a lot, I don't hate what they did with the art style, but a lot of things they did making the game drove a lot of people either away from it, or caused them not to like it that much.

[DeathBasket]

I get what you mean with the leveling, but it's not for a Zelda game in my opinion. Harder enemies are introduced as you go along (SS did this well) and making older enemies harder wouldn't make a lot of sense. "Hey, I got the Master Sword, but since I'm a high level it's only as good as my wooden sword was anyway". I don't know, I just don't see how it could work effectively without taking away the believability of the game.

[HeavyZ]

I get what you mean with the leveling, but it's not for a Zelda game in my opinion.

I don't doubt at all that you're not the only one who feels that way, but from what Eiji Aonuma said in an interview it seems that the Zelda series is going to change a good deal. At least in this one game, and if more like it than not those same changes are likely to stay for most of the later installments of the franchise. Personally I would like the change though how much it's going to be changed in this new game exactly hasn't been said. I don't want it to stray too far from what it has been. I doubt it will either knowing how Nintendo has handled Mario.

[Conker]

Anybody remember those Dexivine enemies in Wind Waker?

When I cut those fuckers up, they spewed their green goo everywhere.

 

However, whenever I slash away at, say, a Moblin, there's nothing.

Just this weird energy comes out, as if they're bloodless creatures filled with sparkles.

 

I'd love to see blood in a Zelda game on all enemies. It makes me feel as though my weapons have more weight to them, or something.

I don't know exactly how to describe why, but it's more satisfying to kill an enemy that drips blood rather than energy.

So I'd love for blood to be a common thing in Zelda.

 

Not overdone, of course, but still done. If you know what I mean.

---

As for cursing, well, I still think it's a good idea. Things like crap, damn, hell, piss, bastard, you know.

Not fuck, shit, bitch, or whatever.

[DeathBasket]

Anybody remember those Dexivine enemies in Wind Waker?

When I cut those fuckers up, they spewed their green goo everywhere.

 

However, whenever I slash away at, say, a Moblin, there's nothing.

Just this weird energy comes out, as if they're bloodless creatures filled with sparkles.

 

I'd love to see blood in a Zelda game on all enemies. It makes me feel as though my weapons have more weight to them, or something.

I don't know exactly how to describe why, but it's more satisfying to kill an enemy that drips blood rather than energy.

So I'd love for blood to be a common thing in Zelda.

 

I agree. I don't understand the whole thing about not being able to show blood in games without them getting a high age rating. I mean, it's not like slashing something with a sword in real life would make it bleed or something, is it? What's the difference? People see blood pretty much every day. Should we make raw meat 18+ only too? It's a similar thing with nudity. "Sorry, you're not allowed to see this because it contains pictures of body parts that everyone has".

 

 

As for cursing, well, I still think it's a good idea. Things like crap, damn, hell, piss, bastard, you know.

 

The first three don't qualify as curse words for me anyway (I think those are exclusively American), the second sort of depend on the context and character. I would just object to the main villain(s) in a game that's meant to be taken seriously using this sort of language, not if it were something like Conker where it's just for lulz.

[DarthDub]

Just give them time. It's the games that matter. I'm sure they'll be fine.

[I M Evil]

you could say that, BUT, where are the games?

you have to consider that both Sony and MS is coming out with their respective consoles

before any decent Nintendo game that possbily could be a systemseller. Have them both

do the exact opposite to what nintendo has done so far and Nintendo will fall behind...GREATLY!

Just give them time. It's the games that matter. I'm sure they'll be fine.

[Antidote]

The Xbox one has very little support from the consumers right now. It's pretty early to say how it will fair.

[DarthDub]

 

you could say that, BUT, where are the games?

you have to consider that both Sony and MS is coming out with their respective consoles

before any decent Nintendo game that possbily could be a systemseller. Have them both

do the exact opposite to what nintendo has done so far and Nintendo will fall behind...GREATLY!

Just give them time. It's the games that matter. I'm sure they'll be fine.

 

Sony had a rough start with the jump to HD with the PS3. Nintendo was struggling with HD Shaders and are slowly getting the hang of it.

[Antidote]

Nintendo was actually a little bit ahead of Sony in that regard. The main problem is the fact that the idiots at EA were sneering at them, and Ubisoft tends to follow EA like a lost puppy.