Wind Waker: Exactly How Much was Cut?

[Sage of Mirrors]

So, I know this thread will probably die in a matter of minutes, but I thought it'd be cool to have a short discussion on it. The question is- how much of Wind Waker's planned content was scrapped due to time constraints? I think there was a lot.

 

I recently made a discovery while using the Action Replay in Underwater Hyrule. In the areas around the outside of Hyrule Castle, there are groups of staircases leading to black fade-out spots similar to the entrances to the mail center on Dragon Roost Island. None of these have collision. This might not seem like much, but what's interesting is that these areas are never seen during regular gameplay and, even more interestingly, the technique of having a simplified version of the geometry of another area present in the overworld is used both on Dragon Roost Island (to show the area where you save Medli) and the Tower of the Gods (the final stairwell that leads to Gohdan). None of these areas have collision. Sound familiar? I think that the areas I found around Hyrule Castle are remnants of a more complex Hyrule Castle that was planned, but then cut.

 

However, I also believe that Hyrule itself was meant to have more interaction. The random lake surrounding the Castle is, well, random; given the main mode of transportation (sailing), I think that the lake was supposed to be like an ocean beneath the ocean, on which you'd use the KoRL. The barrier, I think, was sort of like a last-minute addition explaining why you can't get to the temples; if you noticed, you couldn't get to them even if the barrier wasn't there. So my hypothesis here? I think that you were originally supposed to sail on the lake surrounding the Castle to get to the Earth and Wind Temples before it was cut and the simplified 'Island Entrances' were created.

 

So, what do you guys think?

[Forecast]

Maybe they're just there for scenery purposes.

[Sage of Mirrors]

Why would stairs you can't see normally be there for scenery? I know the things on Dragon Roost and Tower are for scenery.

[Forecast]

Well, that's what I think they are, judging by your description of it. Then again, your hypothesis does hold some history there

[Sage of Mirrors]

 

One of the exit fadeouts

 

 

A stairwell

 

 

Location in relation to the rest of the castle

 

 

Another exit fadeout and some more stairways; notice the stairway that leads into the ceiling

 

 

Here's a little of what I'm talking about. Under normal circumstances, you would never see these- not even during the cutscene where you're floating down from the surface for the first time.

[Kargaroc]

Interesting find!

 

The architecture looks like something I would make.

[Secant]

But it might be seen in the cutscene where

 

you cut through the barrier to Ganon's Tower, which, iirc, shows the entire castle from a few angles in the process of zooming out.

 

 

There's also the matter of a multitude of beta islands that can be found left on the disc. I think there's a few Action Replay codes to view them with, and with that in mind, there's really no telling what sorts of islands Nintendo might've planned for the game. Theoretically, there could be an infinite amount of them since we see no end to the Great Sea within the game itself.

[Sage of Mirrors]

I just watched that cutscene; it shows a wide view of the castle, but you can't see any of that architecture.

[Gump]

It's possible they did it to be on the safe side, too.

[Sage of Mirrors]

Yeah, that's possible, too...

 

I was reading a beta wiki called 'The Cutting Room Floor,' and in the section on Wind Waker they mentioned old versions of some Tower of the Gods rooms... I was interested in seeing them, so I opened them up in BMDview2...

 

 

 

 

 

 

I find it interesting that the Tower was originally going to have a more castle-like appearance. Notice the gap below the bell platform? I think that's why they made the gap in the ceiling present in Gohdan's room; It could've been something like the teleporter between the second and third floors- in fact, the energy beam that allows Link to go to the the bell tower in the final boss room is the same one as the teleporter.

 

Along with this beta bell tower, there's a boss room with the same blue brick texture, and stained glass textures present in the final Tower. I'll post pics of those shortly.

 

Oh, how I'd love to load these up in the game... Maybe I should research AR codes. If they can load test rooms, they can load these rooms, too, right?

[Twili]

Wow. This is VERY good news, were there to be a beta restoration project.

[xdaniel]

Oh, how I'd love to load these up in the game... Maybe I should research AR codes. If they can load test rooms, they can load these rooms, too, right?

Many of the unused rooms apparently can be loaded, but I'm not sure about those Tower of the Gods ones specifically. Seeing how the TCRF article doesn't have in-game screenshots of those and also only ones from bmdview2, they probably fail to load like the one in group TF_07 and one in Cave08. Then again, E3ROOP and ENDumi are stated to fail loading normally as well, but apparently can be forced to load properly somehow judging from the in-game screenshots of them...

 

Wonder if swapping around files inside the ISO could get them to load? That is, replacing ex. Outset Island's files with whatever unused map you want to load.

[Sage of Mirrors]

Here's the boss room.

 

 

 

 

 

I think it's also worth mentioning that Gohdan's alcoves don't appear in the final boss room's model; they must be part of his entity, or a different entity(ies) altogether:

 

 

 

One last thing: When comparing the sizes of the two rooms, it is obvious that the beta one is much smaller than the final; could it be that the boss might've opened the way to another room which held the transporter to the bell tower, and what's left is that room?

[Sage of Mirrors]

Many of the unused rooms apparently can be loaded, but I'm not sure about those Tower of the Gods ones specifically. Seeing how the TCRF article doesn't have in-game screenshots of those and also only ones from bmdview2, they probably fail to load like the one in group TF_07 and one in Cave08. Then again, E3ROOP and ENDumi are stated to fail loading normally as well, but apparently can be forced to load properly somehow judging from the in-game screenshots of them...

 

Wonder if swapping around files inside the ISO could get them to load? That is, replacing ex. Outset Island's files with whatever unused map you want to load.

 

Ooh, that might work. I'll try that, see what it does... thanks for the suggestion.

[Sage of Mirrors]

So, I tried using the program 'Gamecube Rebuilder' to graft the files of the unused TotG rooms over the Outset model in Sea_T (From what I can tell, it's the model used in the Title). From this, I found that Room20, the top of the bell tower, won't cause the game to crash; it loads, but because the Outset model is no longer there, the Link in the title sequence drops into the water. Once in the water, the only control I have is over the camera; all other input isn't registered. Because of this, I can't look around properly to see if the model did in fact load.

 

The other one, Room19, results in a black screen; for all purposes, I assume this means it crashes.

 

I've also grafted Room20 over the Outset model that is used normally (In the folder 'Sea'). This results in a crash, as well. I haven't checked (I will soon), but I believe this might be because the Title model of Outset is compressed. Room20 is also compressed. However, another theory I have is that it was to do with the location of the models; Room20 might be 'outside' in the same sense that Outset is; I'll have to figure out if I can get Room19 to load in place of an 'indoor' map.

[Sage of Mirrors]

...

 

 

 

 

 

...The bell renders itself; it's above where it should be held. All buttons were phased out (I'll get the Grappling Hook and see if I can use it there later) and the gap doesn't lead anywhere; it's just a long pit. Now to get Room19...

[Sage of Mirrors]

Alright, so I've got a problem. Room19 is fairly large in .RARC form. I've noticed that the regular .ARCs in the ISO (uncompressed) have RARC in the first four... er, bytes? While the Room19 and 20 .ARCs are yaz0 compressed. Which means, I need to decompress them for them to work.

 

My problem?

 

The program I'm using to graft them doesn't like grafting files that are bigger than the original I'm trying to overwrite. Is there anyway to get Room19 in through, say, a hex editor? Is it possible to do that in a ROM? Maybe it could work for an ISO, as well.

[Twili]

GC-Tool lets you replace any file I think.

 

http://wiki.gbatemp.net/w/images/a/a0/Gctool12b.zip

[Sage of Mirrors]

No, it says that it can't replace files with another file that's bigger.

[Sage of Mirrors]

So, I found another room... this time of the miniboss room:

 

 

I think the door is missing because Stage.arc, which holds the doors, hasn't been changed.

 

I wonder how the game decides where to put what when it comes to things like objects and enemies. Interestingly, I couldn't use the sword when I was in there, meaning I couldn't kill the Darknut. Also, whenever I went far enough away, the Darknut went back to his neutral position in the center of the room. The cutscene didn't occur; maybe because the cutscene with the door locking didn't occur, either? Or maybe this map lacks the triggers for the cutscene... I wish I knew more about this stuff.

 

Unfortunately, I still haven't gotten the beta boss room yet... Well, maybe I shouldn't say 'Unfortunately,' since all I'm doing is using a program to replace files... I should research Gamecube file formats a bit...

[Sage of Mirrors]

I was looking at the two folders that you talked about, Xdaniel- Cave08 and TR_7. While TF_7 looks like a normal Triforce Chart area, Cave08 doesn't make any sense. Why have copies of Wind Temple rooms taking up space on the disc?

 

Odd. I tried replacing Windfall Island's map with Room19... I'm not sure if it was because I changed the Stage.arc or what, but I was able to pull up the map. It said that I was in the Tower of the Gods... I'm posting this while the game's running, so I'll try to find Room19 in the overworld.

 

I still haven't been able to get the room to load. So far, whenever it tries to load, it loads the objects 'Os,' 'Hkyo' and 'Key.' 'Os' is one of the statues in the Tower, 'Hkyo' is the glowing symbol used on doors in the Tower and the last one is a collection of the different locks used througout the game. I'm pretty sure they're loaded because of Stage.arc, though, as when I grafted Room19 over anything I always placed the TotG's Stage.arc with it, too.

 

I believe I'm overthinking this. Is there really anything that I can do to get it to work? Probably not.

[Zurg]

Quintuple post much?

[Secant]

Quintuple post much?

Permitted because each of them contributed to the thread in a significant enough way, though I will say we prefer that no more than two consecutive posts be made, especially in such a short time frame; as such, to reduce clutter, I've merged your posts. As a general prospect, if it's in the same day and no one's posted a response yet, an edit is probably the better option.

[Twili]

These two textures are shared between /res/Stage/sea/Room23.arc (Greatfish Isle) and Room33.arc (Private Oasis):

 

Txq_besso_iemae

 

 

Txq_hune_a

 

 

 

You can't see the path texture in the Greatfish Isle image, but it's there on another chunk of the remains. Also, you see this when you play the Ballad of Gales...

 

 

The cave for Jabun is also not present in the E3 model of Outset Island:

 

 

Final:

 

 

Conclusion: Greatfish Island is one of the cut places.

[xdaniel]

ENDumi's collision - a prototype Triforce island?

 

 

Nothing else that stood out as odd, but I haven't played Wind Waker in years, so... who knows.